Main Sections:
Main Site
Discussion Forum
    All Topics
    New Messages
    Search
    Last Day
    Last Week
    Tree View
    Edit Profile
    Create Login
    Guidelines
    Help
Game Chat
Fund Raiser:
Order Merchandise!

Suggested Reading:
(click cover for info)

cover

Just a bunch of good ol' boys...

OAFC BBS - All Topics: Archive: Just a bunch of good ol' boys...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By wbell on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 02:58 pm:

Ng Is Victim of Racial Taunts

Former Dodger and Angel pitcher Bill Singer apologizes for remarks directed at the Dodgers' assistant GM during meetings in Phoenix.

By Jason Reid, Times Staff Writer


PHOENIX New York Met official Bill Singer, a former All-Star pitcher with the Dodgers and Angels, directed racially insensitive remarks at Dodger executive Kim Ng in deriding her Chinese heritage this week, baseball officials who witnessed the incident said Friday.

Singer, hired last week as a special assistant to Met General Manager Jim Duquette, confronted Ng, a Dodger vice president and assistant general manager, late Tuesday night at the general manager meetings here.

According to witnesses, Singer approached Ng in the bar of the hotel where the meetings occurred. After asking Ng, the highest-ranking Asian American in the major leagues, questions about her background in a sarcastic tone, Singer began speaking nonsensically in mock Chinese before eventually leaving.

Although he did not confirm details, Singer expressed remorse for his actions in a statement provided by the Mets.

"I'm embarrassed by what I said when I met Ms. Ng on Tuesday evening," the statement read. "My comments were totally inappropriate and I'm truly sorry. I have apologized to her and hope that she will forgive me."

Ng declined to discuss the events of that evening, acknowledging only "there was a situation that occurred. I have talked to Jim Duquette about it, and that's all I'm going to comment on."

The Dodgers and Mets also commented Friday on the embarrassing situation.

"His conduct was inexcusable and extremely disappointing," said Dodger General Manager Dan Evans, Ng's longtime friend and mentor.

"Kim handled the entire situation in a professional manner, and we addressed the matter with the New York Mets the next day. I would prefer to keep that discussion with the Mets confidential."

Duquette responded through Jay Horwitz, the Mets' vice president of media relations.

"We learned of the matter recently and have addressed it with Bill Singer directly," Duquette said in a statement read by Horwitz. "While I cannot share the particulars of that discussion with you, suffice it to say, his comments were entirely unacceptable and inconsistent with the values and standards of our organization. We have extended our apologies to Kim Ng and the Dodger organization."

Responding to a reporter's question about Singer's job status, Duquette said that Singer is still "employed by us at the moment. However, this entire matter continues to be under review by the organization. We are reserving judgment on this."

Because of his status as one of Duquette's top advisors, Singer was part of the Mets' contingent at the meetings that ended Friday.

Singer is one of two special assistants recently added to the club's reorganized front office. He formerly was a special assistant with Pittsburgh and held a top amateur scouting position with the Dodgers in 1998.

A 20-game winner with the Dodgers in 1969 and Angels in 1973, Singer tossed a no-hitter for the Dodgers against Philadelphia on July 20, 1970.

On Tuesday, Singer approached Ng as many baseball people were gathering in the hotel bar after attending an instructional league game. Deals are often discussed after hours in bars, and the hot-stove league talk continued that night as Singer began questioning Ng at about 11 p.m.

Two officials within earshot described the exchange.

Singer: What are you doing here?

Ng: I'm working.

Singer: What are you doing here?

Ng: I'm working. I'm the Dodger assistant general manager.

Singer: Where are you from?

Ng: I was born in Indiana and grew up in New York.

Singer: Where are you from?

Ng: My family's from China.

Singer: (Nonsensically mock Chinese). What country in China?

Evans, not present at the bar late Tuesday, was informed about the incident by many people early Wednesday morning. He was said to be furious about what had occurred, Dodger sources said, and clearly expressed his feelings to Duquette.

Ng is in her second season with the Dodgers. In its May 5 edition, Sports Illustrated ranked Ng as the "38th most influential minority in the sports world." Before joining the Dodgers, she served as a vice president and assistant general manager for the New York Yankees and worked for Major League Baseball.

Ng began her baseball career with the Chicago White Sox in 1990, working under Evans in baseball operations.

"As always, Kim acted professionally," Evans said. "It's an unfortunate situation."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodgers15nov15,1,4114939.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 08:51 pm:

Yeh, I saw that disgusting exchange. What a doofus ... amongst other things. I hope the Mets use their brains and can him.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 09:30 pm:

Incredible. Definitely, the Mets should get rid of him immediately.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By okplayer on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 11:28 pm:

agreed gang fire his punk-ass

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By wbell on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 05:32 pm:

Singer fired by Mets

November 18, 2003

NEW YORK (AP) -- Bill Singer was fired by the New York Mets on Tuesday, a week after the newly hired special assistant made racially insensitive remarks to a Los Angeles Dodgers executive.

At the general manager's meetings in Phoenix, Singer reportedly asked Dodgers assistant general manager Kim Ng questions about her background and later spoke in gibberish, making fun of the Chinese language.

Singer was hired by Mets general manager Jim Duquette on Nov. 6 after spending the 2003 season as a special assistant to the GM of the Pittsburgh Pirates.

``As a matter of policy our organization can not and will not tolerate any comment or conduct by an employee that suggests insensitivity or intolerance to any racial, ethnic or religious group,'' Duquette said in a statement. ``Any deviation from this standard is not acceptable.''

Singer, 59, and the Mets later apologized to Ng, one of the highest-ranking women in baseball administration. Singer was a two-time 20-game winner during his 14-year pitching career in the majors.

Ng said she had no comment regarding Singer's dismissal.

Ng, who was raised in New Jersey, became the second female assistant general manager in the majors when she was hired by the New York Yankees in 1997. At 29, she was the youngest assistant GM in the majors.

She resigned from the Yankees in 2001 after her contract expired, and was hired by the Dodgers a month later.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-mets-singer&prov=ap&type=lgns

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 08:57 pm:

He was indeed fired by the Mets. Hope no one else hires him.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By chavy4ever on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 08:50 am:

I read that Cashman stepped in the middle of it...

Someone at work also told me the Singer claims the reason why he did it is becuase he's on the Atkin's diet, and it caused a chemical imbalance in his head that when mixed with booze, made him do what he did. I could only imagine Fred Wilpons face when Singer sat down and told him that one!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By bubba69 on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 12:46 pm:

Al Campanis, Jimmy The Greek and John Rocker...
Do these guys ever learn??

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By phewall on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 05:52 pm:

Political Correctness gone amok. Please people. Was the guy being an insensitive jerk. Absolutely. Did he make a sincere apology? It seems like it. I don't know this guy, nor does anybody on this board, maybe he has a history of racial hostility, I don't know. Do I think he should be reprimanded? Sure. Should he make an apology? Absolutely. Should the guy be fired? That seems pretty extreme to me. Of course the Mets can do whatever they want to, but from what I have heard, this sounds like the PC police are running wild.

Hope he never gets hired? Do you mean just baseball or any job for that matter? I want all the people reading this to tell me that they NEVER made fun of some other language or accent? Come on. Get Real. Nobody ever had a few drinks at a party and said something stupid they regret later? Certainly this guy was guilty of being a jerk and should and did apologize. Maybe the Mets feel their reputation in today's climate, was harmed so much that they had to fire the guy. But saying he should never get hired? Ruin the guy's whole career? That's just nuts. But unforunately that's the PC world we live in today.

Well this is supposed to be about baseball which is much more fun to talk about, but hey it makes for good discussion! :-)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By mutiny on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 06:28 pm:

phe, i couldn't disagree with you more on this. it is not only the fact that he made fun of her cultural heritage, but the fact that he even felt it appropriate to say this to a woman in a totally male-dominated workplace...arrrgggghhhhh.


you think we live in a PC world? if we did, this guy wouldn't have made such a remark to her in the first place.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By jesse on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 06:42 pm:

Major Leauge Baseball teams rely on the public to like their product and buy into it. The Mets have a lot to accomplish to restore their organization, the last thing they need is a unprofessional person in a position of importance in the front office. Mr Singer exposed himself as person who may not always use good judgement. That being said, they cannot rely on his judgement. He had to be fired!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By jesse on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 06:43 pm:

And he's a doofis!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By phewall on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 09:10 pm:

Well we do live in a PC world I'm afraid. I'm not condoning or excusing what he did, but I just think a reprimand and an apology would have been appropriate. I mean what if Ms, Ng had been from Mississippi and the guy had made fun of a Southern accent. Don't people from the South have a "cultural heritage?" Would that be enough to get someone fired? Or is it that you can offend certain groups and not others?

And since this is a sports forum, what about the whole Junior Seau thing. Saying the only way to slow down LaDanian Tomlinson was to stuff him with fried chicken and watermelon. Should he have been fired? Suspended? etc.? That seems much worse of a comment than Singer's stupid Chinese imitation.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 12:37 am:

Seau and Tomlinson were friends and former teammates with a history of ragging on each other. (I heard an interview with Seau in which he talked about this.)

That's not quite the same as walking up to a stranger and insulting her ethnic background.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By phewall on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 10:04 am:

Yes, that is very true, but the point is that Seau said it in a very public forum and used a really crude, some might say vulgar stereotype. LaDanian saved Seau's ass by saying they were friends and he knew Junior didn't mean anything by it. Fuzzy Zoeller made the fried chicken comment about Tiger and got crucified, lost valuable endoresements etc. Everyone knows Fuzzy is a jokester on the PGA tour and the people who know him say he is not racist and didn't mean anything by it. So I guess the moral of the story is, its ok to use gross stereotypes in public as long as they are about your friends?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By mutiny on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 12:05 pm:

you are saying that mocking a chinese accent is the same as mocking a southern accent?????????? i mean, i don't condone mocking folks from the south at all, but i can't believe you even think they are comparable. what a ridiculous analogy.

no, it ain't cool to use gross stereotypes, even if the targets are your friends...

don't you think it is different when black folks rag on eachother than when whites, enjoying tons of social priviledge, rag on a person of color? and you think two friends ragging on one another in public is the same as a guy making fun of a chinese woman (one of the few who has ever been in her professional position) he does not know? i think tomlinson saved his but, too. and if tomlinson was really angry about it, i am willing to bet there would have been some sort of repurcutions.

we live in a pc world, if by that you mean e live in a world where people frown on racism, where people are intolerant of crude, insulting stereotypes about people's background. what kind of world would you have us live in? one in which everyone could say publicly whatever they wanted about others, no matter how hurtly (so long as they made a public apology)? i have no problem with making an example out of this guy -- he seems like a jackass. and when he does find a job, maybe he will think twice about making fun of collegues.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By phewall on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 02:05 pm:

Well, let's see. Whether someone has a chinese accent (I don's know if Ms. Ng can even speak Chinese) or a Southern accent depends on where they are from. Why is it more or less offensive to insult someone from Shanghai than it is to insult someone from Atlanta? It's a perfectly legitimate analogy. The only difference is the potential ethnicity of the people involved. But according to some, whites with their "tons of social priviledge(sic)" must operate by different rules than "people of color." I don't really agree with that (insulting people and perpetuating stereotypes is wrong no matter who does it.)

As for a PC world. I absolutely think that racism and stereotyping should be frowned on and dealt with wherever it rears its ugly head. It has no place in this country. But I just think its gone too far in some cases. I think that people that make a mistake at a party and do something stupid should be given a chance to apologize and not get fired. If they continue to be insensitive and make hurtful comments then they should be let go by all means. Its not like this guy burned a cross on somebody's lawn.

The problem about PC gone amok is living in a society where a guy talks about a Seinfeld epiisode at work and gets fired for sexual harassment, or eliminating snowmen from textbooks because they are "sexist." It's a matter of degree. Fighting racist stereotypes, yes. Educating people to be more civil and decent, yes. "Making an example" of people who are willing to apologize and change their ways is not the way to go in my opinion.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By mutiny on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 10:42 pm:

the fact that you put "tons of social priviledge" and "people of color" in quotes suggests just how far apart we are on this issue.

exactly what "has gone too far in some cases"? racism? or our response to it?

you probably think john rocker got a bum deal, huh? too much PC garbage.

no, this guy didn't burn a cross on someone's lawn. but you think that one has to do something that extreme to lose his job?

"The only difference is the potential ethnicity of the people involved. But according to some, whites with their "tons of social priviledge(sic)" must operate by different rules than "people of color.""

and don't you think that difference is crucial? or do you think we really do live in a color blind society, where racism hurts all of us equally, where hate is evenly distributed, where racist stereotypes and prejudice are egalitarian in their effects? i don't. which is precisly why i think the "rules" must attend to social power.

well, you can feel sorry for this guy for getting a bum rap. i think he got exactly what he deserved.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By jesse on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 09:27 am:

The primary problem Singer made is that he embarrased himself and the Mets in front of Brian Cashman and many other front office personell from around the league. The second problem is that Singer's situation was known from coast to coast in the media. The Mets on either level could not afford to retain his services. It could hurt their ability to retain a key player, or attract new fans, maybe both. The acts of discrimination and insults posted earlier in this thread were all isolated in their own circumstance, and most were handled accordingly. As was Mr. Singers situation by the Mets.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By phewall on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 01:21 am:

My final thoughts. No, we don't live in a color blind society, and certainly we never will by establishing different rules of behavior based on what social power structure you happen to buy into. You don't think that Junior Seau's comments for instance were heard by thousands of his young fans? He's a big time marquee player. You don't think there were thousands of blacks who are horribly offended and pissed off that LaDanian Tomlinson gave Seau a free pass on the fried chicken and watermelon wisecrack?? Come on. Racist, stereotypical comments are hurtful no matter how much social privelege you think someone has. Period.

I think some people should put down the Beverly Daniel Tatum long enough to read John McWhorter's "Losing the Race" or Shelby Steele's "The Content of our Character" and widen their perspective a little. But this thread has already gone way beyond baseball so I've made my last post on this topic.

Anyway, I hope that mutiny and I can meet up after an A's game, an A's victory preferably, and have a friendly and intelligent discussion about these issues. :-)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By filthyslurve on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 02:26 am:

Yeah, you guys should meet in the new Irish pub in the Coliseum. Man, those bogtrotters like to drink.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By mutiny on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 11:19 am:

:)


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.


 

Questions? Comments? Corrections? Please contact info@oaklandfans.com.