Main Sections:
Main Site
Discussion Forum
    All Topics
    New Messages
    Search
    Last Day
    Last Week
    Tree View
    Edit Profile
    Create Login
    Guidelines
    Help
Game Chat
Fund Raiser:
Order Merchandise!

Suggested Reading:
(click cover for info)

cover

Archive through January 08, 2004

OAFC BBS - All Topics: Archive: 2004 Attendence - 2 million...maybe: Archive through January 08, 2004
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By milo on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 06:03 pm:

they will be very lucky to break 2 million with this weekend schedule.


WEEKEND GAMES (friday included) 2004 -

seattle - 3
anaheim - 6
tejas - 3

kc - 6
chicago - 3
minn - 3
cleveland - 3

toronto - 3
tampa - 3

sf - 3
pitt - 3

By comparison, the Mariners weekend games -

boston - 3
yanks - 6

cubs - 3
expos - 3
padres - 3

tejas - 6
angels - 3
a's - 3

indians - 3
kc - 3
detroit - 3

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 06:26 pm:

As long as their in contention people have and will show up. They haven't drawn 2 million+ the last three years just because of who they play on weekends.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By milo on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 12:09 pm:

>They haven't drawn 2 million+ the last three years just because of who they play on weekends.

Really now. A's have squeaked past 2 mil the last few years - 2.2 mil last year, i believe - so having the yanks, bosox, seattle in town on the weekends can make all the difference...

10 weekend + weekday games v. NY and Boston last year = 400k

This year - 6 weekday games = 200 - 220k

That's a 200k swing right there.

You think having KC in town instead of the Yanks will make up that difference?

I don't.

And what about having Pitt. and Cinci., the dregs of the NL, instead of Montreal and Atlanta?

Even more, the 2nd half weekend series suck this year: texas, kc, tampa, cleveland, and angels. Not one of those is a big draw, so you can expect 25-30k instead of 40-45k for all those games. Last year it was blue jays, tbay, yanks and seattle - the latter 2 drew an avg of 42k/game.

As I say, they'll be very lucky to break 2 mil this year.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 12:37 pm:

They didn't have the Yankees and Red Sox on weekends in 2002 and was also with a lackluster interleague home schedule (remember they played MILWAUKEE) yet they still drew over 2 million fans. Quality of opponents helps but winning is what draws you fans so the A's will be fine as long as they keep winning.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By milo on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 01:24 pm:

I agree that winning helps, but in 2002 they were riding a 18-game win streak into september, and had a great september lineup at home - minnesota, seattle, anaheim and texas - which averaged 35k or so, even on weekdays.

Wouldn't be surprised if that was their biggest single month attendence in history.

You think there will be 35k showing up to see tampa's, anaheim's and cleveland's AAA squads in september this year? They also had 55,000 in on a wednesday nite (self included) to watch KC play (#21)...

Last three years they've been over 2 mil by about 150k. This year's schedule will end that streak.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 02:01 pm:

Anaheim's AAA squad? They will be the A's #1 competition in the West this year as I think Seattle is just about to hit the wall on their run of sucess.

milo problem with your argument is your just feeding into the myth that the A's can't draw fans. A's will draw 2 million fans for a fourth straight year as long as they are winners, mark it down.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By milo on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 04:13 pm:

News flash: A's attendance is very mediocre, and they do have trouble drawing fans.

Last year, we barely beat out San Diego and Texas, teams that would have trouble taking a series from the Rivercats.

And every single team below us in attendance, save the malcontent Chisox, are from a small market. ie, for a very successful team, with a rich history in a large market, the A's draw is pretty lame. Believe me - I go to alot of midweek games, I see it up close n personal. A perfect example: Our second game of the year in 2003, our chief division rival in town, our Cy Young on the mound...17k showed up. The next day...6k.

Blame it on fair-weather fans if you must, it's still pathetic.

So when you say that it's a myth the A's can't draw fans, what is your reference point, AAA leagues?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By okplayer on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 04:51 pm:

Milo, you're pretty much on-point, but those Sea games aren't a good example. Remember, those two games weren't orignally on the sched--were supposed to be in Japan. Do tend to agree though. When the A's were in the middle of the streak in 2002 they had a Friday game (I believe) vs. the division-leading Twins (day b/4 miggy's shot), huddy on the mound, and only had like 25K. Nevertheless, it's hard to complain w/our attendance, really. All the teams ahead of us (save the Cards--who play in the best baseball town in America) are either A) A huge market team or B) have a new stadium. Also, if you factor in the cost of living in the Bay Area, that takes away from $ that could be spent on tix. Another fact to consider is that the Bay Area is not a hotbed of sports fanatics. Pac Bell park is a draw independent of the gnats, and nobody gives a shit about the college sports scene either.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 05:07 pm:

I figured it out...milo is Bud Selig. 2 million+ fans for three straight years means you can draw fans.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By okplayer on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 05:13 pm:

yc, the attendance argument goes both ways. Yeah, 2+ mil is good over four years, but when you factor in that we have like the second most wins in MLB during that span, then the attendance figures are less impressive. I think the probs w/our attendance are centered around our horrible marketing efforts and horrible local media coverage. For starters, we need to get aligned w/a better radio station. I say 1050 but everyone shits on me every time I make that suggestion.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By wbell on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 05:38 pm:

Exceeding 2 million by almost 11% is barely breaking the mark?

Last year, we barely beat out San Diego and Texas...

San Diego outdrew Oakland in 2001 and 2002. Besting the Padres' attendance in 2003 was impressive, considering the hoopla around their final year of playing in Qualcomm.

As for Texas, they are the sole team in a large market playing in a 10 year old stadium considered among the best in baseball. They SHOULD outdraw the A's. However, the string of last place finishes finally dragged Texas' attendance below Oakland's.

And every single team below us in attendance, save the malcontent Chisox, are from a small market.

Funny, I didn't know Toronto, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit and Miami qualified as small markets.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By milo on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 05:54 pm:

yc - your blind allegiance really underscores the delusion in all of your points. thanks for playing.

ok - i agree with most of your explanations - but when you say all the teams ahead of us are big-market teams, isn't that the point? it would make no sense to compare us to KC and Milwaukee.

Put another way, the A's have the worst attendence of any big-market team in the country.
Which is particulary alarming given their great success and cream of the crop young stars.

The A's should easily draw 30+ per game. Anything less is lame. Look at last September - leading the division, down the homestretch, and how many people showed up for weekday games v. Angels and Texas series? About 22k/game.

That's about the same draw that last-place San Diego was getting in their (old) stadium during the same september stretch.

So yes, if you wanna compare the A's attendence to a last place team in an old stadium in September, then yes, I'd say they have pretty decent draw.

Otherwise, it's pretty damn mediocre.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By milo on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 06:02 pm:

>Toronto, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit and Miami qualified as small markets.

- oh, i see, so kansas city and tampa bay are the only two small market teams in baseball. is that your point? and that's who the A's should be judged against?


really, who do you think is a fair comparison for the A's...i'm very curious.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By wbell on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 06:04 pm:

Okplayer, you hit the nail on the head. Debating the quality of sports fans in the Bay Area is an entirely different discussion. At the end of the day, the A's are responsible for the attendance they generate.

If the A's want to jump into the 2.4 - 2.6 range, they have to do a MUCH better job of marketing and media relations. In other words, attendance is about as high as it will go without additional effort (and resources) on the part of the A's.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By wbell on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 06:24 pm:

...who do you think is a fair comparison for the A's...

First off, I don't buy into the A's being a "small" market team. The A's may operate like they are in a small market, but in reality they are in one of the biggest markets in the country.

I compare the A's against teams in two team markets that get the lesser amount of media coverage (Angels, Mets and White Sox). Other comparables (based on factors like city size, stadium, etc.) include Philadelphia, San Diego and Toronto. But as Philadelphia and San Diego will get new stadiums this year, they will no longer be comparable.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By finleyshero on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 06:24 pm:

The A's will draw 3+ million if they let Leann Tweeden throw out the first pitch twice a week.

"http://www.muscleandfitness.com/photogallery/p/6784.html"

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By wbell on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 06:27 pm:

...so kansas city and tampa bay are the only two small market teams in baseball. is that your point?

No, I'd put Minneapolis and Milwaukee also on that list.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By sactodavey on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 06:27 pm:

awwwww people you all forgot to mention that we lost Tejada now do you think in your right mind they are going to draw win or not? no fregen way the fans are not happy with this ownership and this year we will see the effects of letting our favorite superstar players go.

the A's will drop 400k in attendnce print it it will happen!!!!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By ibleedgreen on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 06:49 pm:

In a way everyone here is right. Losing our star players year after year is too much for some fans to take. But winning has a way of filling the seats.We also have chavy,huddy,zito, mulder to put butts in the seats, popular players A's fans will want to see as much as they can before they depart.
And yeah our marketing sucks.
It doesnt make sense that a team this damn exciting to watch and good doesnt draw more.
Did anyone mention that our stadium sucks is pitiful?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 07:01 pm:

Last thing I'll say it's so sad to see A's fans be bought into the Bud Selig propaganda.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By chris_d on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 07:15 pm:

Ibleedgreen, you say:
"It doesnt make sense that a team this damn exciting to watch and good doesnt draw more."

The answer to this is given by you earlier in your post with:
"Losing our star players year after year is too much for some fans to take."

"And yeah our marketing sucks."

As for our stadium being "pitiful", that has less to do with it than the perception that it's pitiful. Meaning, no one badmouths the Coliseum more than the owners, the same guys responsible for losing our star players every year and crappy marketing.

YC, hits it on the head. The A's drew nearly 2.2 million fans in 2002 with a schedule very similar to upcoming one.

Hey guys, just think what the attendance would be if the owner said, "We are not moving anywhere. It's okay to invest emotionally and financially. We promise not to break your hearts." It'd be 2.5 million easy. By the way, the A's are in a smaller market than the Phillies, a contending team in a large one-team market, and they were neck and neck this year in attendance with the A's.

Given all the negative factors, Oakland attendance is very good.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By milo on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 09:41 pm:

>I compare the A's against teams in two team markets that get the lesser amount of media coverage (Angels, Mets and White Sox). Other comparables (based on factors like city size, stadium, etc.) include Philadelphia, San Diego and Toronto. But as Philadelphia and San Diego will get new stadiums this year, they will no longer be comparable.

- this is what i'm saying, these are all fair comparisons, based on where the A's are. and of these teams, the A's have the worst attendence among the winners, and even several of the losers beat them out - mets and san diego.

that is sad.

my point in all of this is not to berate the oakland fans. i love oakland, and having been to quite a few stadiums, think that A's fans are among the coolest, most enthusiastic and knowledgable bunch out there. and i even like the Net, despite its warts. what i mean to say is that the A's deserve a bigger fan base, even despite the lackluster efforts of its owners and the local media.

what it would take to do that, i can't say. but i think it's unfortunate that people here keep preaching that the A's attendance is good - because by any objective measure, it is not very good. and by saying otherwise, it just normalizes the idea that getting 18k for a division game down the stretch (ie, texas and angles last september) is just fine. frankly, i think it sucks. i always get a pit in my stomach when i go to those games. maybe i should be drinkin more, the crowd will seem bigger...

or maybe all my years at wrigley, watching losers play year after year in a near-packed house, makes me bitter that a team as good as the A's don't draw well, even in a market this huge.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By ronc on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 10:14 pm:

A's attendance:
88 - 2.3 mill
89 - 2.7 mill
90 - 2.9 mill
91 - 2.7 mill
92 - 2.5 mill

A more valid question is "why doesn't this team/organization draw like the 80s team ?". BTW, the 87 team didn't make the playoffs and finished at .500

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 10:20 pm:

Re Leann Tweeden, the funniest thing about the First Pitch event in December was her jeans. They were cut so low, every time she bent over at all, she flashed butt crack at the audience. She kept trying to pull them up, but to no avail.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By voxhoo on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 10:24 pm:

It's unfair to compare the A's to the Mets, White Sox, Angels. The Bay Area is the smallest two-team market. The next smallest two-team market is Chicago at nearly twice the metro population. Hell, the Orioles have an even bigger market all to themselves.

The A's hardcore fan base is about as strong as any other team. They're losing the battle over the casual fans. The Giants have SBC Park and made it to the World Series. The A's have cheap tickets on Wednesdays and 4 straight ALDS knockouts. Total attendance in the Bay Area is already 5 mil. That's one of the highest attendance rates in the nation.

How do the A's lure the casual fans over from SBC? Either the A's make, or better win, the World Series. The Giants tank and the A's continue winning. Or someone blows up SBC Park. Short of that, I can't conceive of a marketing plan that would drive the A's attendance over 2.5 mil.

We're hardcore fans so we care about players and ownership matters. The masses of casual fans (you know, the dorks who think the split A's/Giants caps are a good idea) could care less. They only notice who's winning, or if some record is about to be broken. No "marketing" plan can lure those fans in. The best action that ownership can take to win these fans is winning championships.



 

Questions? Comments? Corrections? Please contact info@oaklandfans.com.