Question about steroids
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I hate to bring up this subject but my wife asked me a questions I cound not answer.
I am not saying that Bonds or Giambi are guilty of taking steroids.
Lets say one of them did take steroids and stopped in the winter. How would you expect that would impact their performance this season? Less HR, more injuries?
| By goldtymer on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 11:27 am:|
If properly used, it wouldn't have much affect if any on this year compared to last year.
What they are (allegedly) taking is not detectable, therefore they won't get caught in a test.
They would (allegedly) cycle up in the offseason and build more bulk.
They would gain muscle mass and size and become stronger.
They off cycle during the season (allegedly) and lose some of the mass and weight. So they'd go up and down a little in weight but would most likely maintain bat speed so they would be the same.
Exceptions would be for example only let us assume (allegedly) that Giambi has been taking HGH or testosterone for several years now and he has been working out like a demon to gain size and strength. He would develop at a rate that was more than his body naturally should.
Muscle weighs more than fat so yes, the joints are taking more than they should and the ligaments are tearing away because the muscle is over developed and suddenly they become more prone to injury (back, knees, shoulders etc..) then all of a sudden Jason would (allegedly) become more injury prone and it would start to affect his numbers (sort of like last year...allegedly).
| By whoknows77 on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 11:50 am:|
To answer your question more specifically, it was good analysis, Tymer, you just kind of forgot to answer the question:
The immediate affects should be minor. They wouldn't immediately become 130 pound weaklings (or lose much strength, really, that takes serious time) and, probably would, if anything, stay a little healthier by dropping a few pounds.
The only real worry would be the affects of HGH on eyesight. I don't know how long lasting its affects are, but if those wore off, it could be huge. But they wouldn't have a whole lot of incentive to cut it as its undetectable anyway.
Giambi had trouble with his eyesight last year. Coincidence?
| By goldtymer on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 12:00 pm:|
That was from Masterbation (allegedly).
The medical use of HGH (human growth hormone) is in the treatment of atrophy or non function of Ptuitary gland which causes dwarfism and retarded growth.
The 'artificial' ingestion, or 'non symptom indicated' use of HGH (especially long-term), will induce gigantism, acromegaly (enlarged head and extremities) and excessive growth of the large muscles.
HGH also helps prevents the aging effects on vision and other senses...prevents wrinkles etc...
all effects of aging...
The worse side effect of the long-term use of HGH is that when treatment is stopped, the Ptuitary gland will no longer produce the natural hormone as before, and the aging process of the body will be accelerated (vison, skin etc...) Depending on how long, this side effect can't be reversed.
The term 'steroids' is very confusing because the way it is being used, it lumps all the 'hormones' together. Here's a simple table that gives a little indication of what these hormones do or don't do to our bodies.
| By whoknows77 on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 12:27 pm:|
They haven't shown any serious long term problems with continuing to take it, have they?
So then it shouldn't be a problem for a player to continue taking it after he retires to cope with the symptoms of taking it.
Thats quite a scam, invent a product that both causes and cures a problem. It'll make us rich! Rich, I tell you, rich!
Oh wait, the market is already cornered.
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems."
Sure, like many good things, the side effects of taking HGH is linked to how much of the hormone is ingested. Very few good things in life can be over-dosed...
If it is a dosage simply targetted to slow down the aging process, the long term side effects seems to be only to the pocket book, since it HGH treatment requires mucho $$$$$$$$$
The side effects that have been seen with HGH injections have been seen in those who take much larger than normal doses used to prevent the aging process. For instance, athletes who are looking to gain superhuman strength and size and who take massive doses of HGH injections are at risk for certain side effects.
Acromegaly is a dangerous disease with increased incidence of heart attack and premature death. Other side effects are carpal tunnel syndrome, tendinitis has been seen when large doses of HGH injection were taken. The enlarged muscles have a tendency to tear away from the bones due to the tendons which cannot support them.
However, most of the studies done by the National Institute of Aging show that, when HGH is taken according to a clinical protocol used for prevention of aging, it shows a complete absence of side effects.
| By jerryo1 on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 01:09 pm:|
Did anyone hear Kevin Kennedy on the Tony Bruno Show this morning about 7:30am? He has been spending alot of time with Jose Canseco lately, and is really pimping him for a return to MLB.
Kennedy said that he has discussed the contents of Canseco's upcoming book with him, and one thing that will be discussed is "the organization's knowledge of his steroid use, and their encouragement of him to instruct other teammates on how to use it correctly". He went on to say that "this was not only with Oakland, but other teams that Jose played for".
Looks like it could really hit the fan for Oaktown when the book comes out. And what about Sandy Alderson? He was "Oakland management" when Canseco played here, and now he's in the Commissioner's office. I'm sure that he's going to have some explaining to do.
| By whoknows77 on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 01:19 pm:|
Thanks Lil, your knowledge of steroids is scarily vast.
| By kevink on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 03:59 pm:|
I heard that too Jerry.
Kennedy did mention "we're not just talking about Oakland here" when he was talking about management encouraging steroid use.
You think Alderson was in on this?
As much as Canseco is bitter and unlikeable at this point, I think his book will be filled with scary truths and will blow things wide open. He says he will name names I guess.
When is the book supposed to be out/
| By eyleenn on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 06:07 pm:|
Don't get the wrong idea about Lil -- she's a medical professional, not a juicer!
I heard Kennedy too. I wonder if TLR knew what was going on with Jose.
ahem...you're correct Ey...I'm no juicer. But I must confess I've been following the long and short term effects of HGH done by the National Institute of Aging for reasons totally unrelated to my profession or to baseball players for that matter.
The real scary thing is how much it costs to stay young, or even look young...never mind hitting a home run.
PS: I'll be the first one in line to buy Jose's book, but I doubt he'll be able to get it to print with any content of real substance.
| By goldtymer on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 08:11 am:|
WOW! Beats botox huh Lil? When you coming out with the finished product?
Lil hit about everything that I read. I don't think I could have phrased it up so tidy though. WELL DONE!
One thing that I really haven't been able to sort out.............
When taking heavy doses of HGH (Think pro body building here) there is quite an enlargement of the internal organs right? If you notice, many of these body building professionals look like they have bellys but they are actually shredded with less body fat than normal. This is a result of enlargement or the organs.
What are the long term affects of this?
The only real data on HGH is from (mostly children) people with Acromegaly. If the data states the side effects are certain enlargements and shorter life span, is this a result directly caused by HGH or a by product of Acromegaly or a combination of the two?
Is there actually any proof that HGH shortens the life span of individuals who do not have Acromegaly once they stop using it?
What are the long term side effects (besides bigger heads, hands, organs and potential tendonitis)?
tymer...I'm afraid not even botox can help me now, but at least I still have some brain cells working and a very grouchy personality to go along to keep me going.
Actually, the articial high exposure of HGH causes acromelagy as a syndrome and not the actual disease. It also causes hyperthyroidism as a consequence. And yes, there is enlargement of the bones...jaw/head/feet/hands, linear growth of muscles and soft tissue changes (internal organs) due to water retention.
Congestive heart failure is linked to the water retention and kidney failure and thus, premature death due to cardio/vascular complications.
Also the Ptuitary gland is called the mother of all glands because it secretes TSH (thyroid-stimulating-hormone for short).
The thyroid gland is controlled by the ptuitary gland and the thyroid secretes the hormones that regulates the body's rate of metabolism.
It is easy to see how one can royally screw up the body when you shut down the ptuitary gland by taking massive amounts of HGH for the wrong reasons (which is when you don't need it for medical reasons such as dwarfism etc...)
| By whoknows77 on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:33 am:|
Having a stomach sticking out does not (necessarily) mean you have inlarged internal organs.
When you have highly developed abs, they, like all other muscles, get larger and stick out, creating the effect you're describing.
Not that I have bodybuilder abs, by any means, but I can tell you from personal experience that this is definately true. (either that or I'm just trying to cover up my 'roid rage)
| By goldtymer on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:58 am:|
I am not saying that the "muscle belly" is only prevelant where HGH is but that it is MORE pronounced in many of the more modern body builders due to abuse of HGH. My current belly has nothing to do with working out, quite the opposite...but I have had better years (quite good actually) physically and I can tell you that this doesn't happen with Creatine or protein.
as far as roid rage, I knew folks with roid rage and sir you are no roid rage!