Schott lied again
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| By yc2578 on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 04:26 pm:|
Just figured this deserved it's own topic that Schott has killed the Dotel deal because he won't add to the payroll.
Change that to "Schott is rumored to have killed the Dotel deal because he won't add to the payroll."
| By okplayer on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 04:45 pm:|
it's all part of his master plan. Sabatoge the team so that nobody will go to games, TV revenue shrinks, thus giving him fodder to move the club. Of course, if they win then he looks like shrewed business man.
Anybody know how much Schitt is really worth?
What a big surprise!!!!!
Don't you worry. We'll soon hear how it wasn't his fault...
| By okplayer on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 06:24 pm:|
I know lil, I know.
BTW, any idea how much schitt's worth?
| By deajay on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 06:31 pm:|
That is a friggin joke. Tightwad couldn't afford $1.2 million? That's half of Dotel's salary. And he was quoted as saying he would add payroll to strengthen the bullpen, less than a week ago. Beautiful.
| By deajay on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 06:41 pm:|
There is also the possibility that Schott didn't want to pay that for Dotel. Sure we'll hear more later.
Off the subject, nice interview with Huston Street during the CWS, tonite. Seems like a very nice and humble, young man. And of course, the one thing he liked about being drafted by Oakland, was that "seem to move players through their system quickly." In the meantime, CSF is losing tonite, which would mean another game with SC tomorrow and Jason Windsor would be pitching.
They were saying on ESPN radio that the deal may still be on and a announcment might be made as early as tonight or tommorow
| By asch on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 08:28 pm:|
like I said, we can only speculate - we need to see what happens.
Does this now make it a bit weirder that Dye is sitting out right now or pure coincidence? Could it be there is a bigger deal going down involving us getting and keeping Beltran and a reliever?
That would be so awesome. Don't get me wrong I love that Dye has had a comeback year.. but c'mon Beltran? That would be amazing to get him and a reliever
| By yc2578 on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 08:49 pm:|
Um I think we're reading a little too much into Dye sitting. Consider the fact he actually makes more than Beltran, why would any team trade for him when they could get Beltran?
| By kcray on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 10:27 pm:|
Hilarious! We've just seen in our cartoon the Schott The Evil keeping nutritional sustenance from the A's village and, voila, a dogpile on the villain.
Never mind that the source was Rosenthal, whose credibility is dramatically lower than even Peter Gammons or Lowell Cohn. And that he writes for The Sporting News, once the "bible" of baseball and now its laughingstock.
No, any whiff of Steve Schott rumored to shortchange our noble team and you can bet the hounds on this website will leap on the bullshit in a picaresque dogpile.
Now consider this: if the sum to consummate the deal is the relatively low salary due Dotel the rest of the year, why won't the Astros pay at least a part of it to get the coveted Beltran. With free agency and age looming for several of their vets, there is pressure to win this season for Houston and there's no way they would see this deal go down the dumper because of about a scant million bucks. Furthermore, the Royals are going to want more than Teahan to part with Beltran and are likely to get considerably more.
I'm not so sure Dotel is the answer for the A's anyhow. A friend marooned in Houston says that Dotel has not done as well as expected in taking over the closer's role from the departed Wagner and has been replaced as the stopper.
The A's would probably be better off with the Dodgers' Mota and after LA's poor offensive performances against the Giants, DePodesta might reconsider trading him to the A's to get Beltran in a 3-way with KC.
Hey gang, I just Goggled "Schott" and saw that he is plans to deprive us worthy fans of our Louisiana Hots. The Horror! The Horror!
| By deajay on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 10:36 pm:|
Well, Beltran would be cheaper; however, I'd rather keep Dye than have Beltran for 3 mos. Now, both of them, yes. but I don't see much .. if anything gained by keeping Beltran over Dye. And as far as Dye being held out tonite because of a possible trade, I think it is little more than giving him a rest during a nightgame before a day game. He has been in every game this season.
And, I'm wondering, if the speculation is more than speculation with re to Schott not wanting to add Dotel's salary, because Schott is not particularly enamored with Dotel. If so, for good reason. The Astros have lost patience with him because he often loses concentration. I really think, like Beane, Schott is hoping to still be able to land Mota. And how stupid is LA to not make that deal? Keeping Mota is not going to get them to postseason, unless they can keep him and get another bat. It just isn't going to happen, even if they can add Garcia. They'll still be left with too many 2-1 games and 3-2 losses. Thinking they can win without giving value for value, to fill their needs, is crazy. I thought DePodesta was brighter than that. Oh, and also, Mota would be 1/2 the price of Dotel, at just under $1mil.
| By deajay on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 10:43 pm:|
Even so, giving up more than Teahen (ie Wood or Blanton as part of the deal) and a catcher, is too much for a 3 month rental, regardless who gets him. Truth is, even Mota, a rental himself, is not enough for Beltran, assuming we deal him to LA. One rumor I saw, said Randa would come over with Beltran. Still not enough for us to throw in Wood or Blanton. But that depends on whether they think Mota will be a savior. Thing is, without another bat, I don't see how we can beyond the first round (if we get there), without one.
In the meantime, you can bet Huston Street will be on a fast track and likely to start out at AA. While they are hoping like heck, he will be ready to assume the closer position next season.
| By okplayer on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 10:49 pm:|
Thank you DJ. I've been crying about us needing a bat and got crapped on. Clearly that's what we need if we wanna get to the promise land (past the first round)...in addition to shoring up the bulle...of course.
| By deajay on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 11:05 pm:|
No doubt to me, we need another solid bat to compete in postseason, and to help get there. I think we are getting good production from what we have because Hatteberg & Durazo ... so far ... have been much better this year. And Kotsay is starting to do what was hoped offensively, while Miller, Crosby and Scutaro have been most pleasant surprises. But also of concern, neither Crosby nor Scutaro have played nearly as much as they will be asked to this season and the wear down factor for both, has to be a concern. Plus, given the positions they play. Macha is going to have to find ways to give them adequate periodic rest throughout the remainder of the season, to keep them fresh. Of course, we're pitifully short on infield backup, but that should improve once Chavy returns.
| By okplayer on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 11:12 pm:|
that's what makes German's emergence (or recent spurt) so important. I always was impressed with his AAA stats...nice to see him represent. I think it just comes down to being able to play everyday.
| By pokayoats on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 11:39 pm:|
What some may not realize is that we ARE going to get a bat by the end of the season. His name is Eric Chavez.
That is why bullpen help is priority numero uno.
| By deajay on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 11:43 pm:|
I don't think anyone has forgotten about Chavez; but we're still going to need another bat. I mean let's face it, Chavez/Tejada generally combined for btw. 60-70HRs, over 200RBIs per season. And, in the past, it still wasn't enough. Another bat with the emergence of some of our other guys should put us over the top. I think, in the meantime, we all agree the pen, right now is numero uno. But we will need both.
| By bigthree17 on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 11:58 pm:|
I posted this on another thread, but we would NOT be giving up Beltran for Mota, or Beltran for Dotel (which I agree would be ridiculously one-sided). KC wants a high-level 3B prospect and a high-level C prospect for Beltran. We'd be giving up Teahan (and maybe another lower prospect) for Mota or Dotel. LA/Houston would supply the top catching prospect to KC. So KC gets a prospect from each of us for Beltran, we get a closer and LA/Houston gets Beltran.
Gammons pretty much said it again on Baseball Tonight earlier. I think I probably got it from him in the first place.
| By bigthree17 on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 12:01 am:|
Oh yeah, and we definitely need another bat as well, probably in the OF. Kotsay was crap until this last month (although his D has been consistently great), Byrnes was horrible in the 2nd half last year, and Dye has been injury-prone. So another guy out there would be great. I propose Steve Finley - he still plays a good CF, has pop, and is supposedly in great shape. And he has postseason experience, including winning the World Series in 2001.
| By goldtymer on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 07:01 am:|
I think Kotsay will be fine, his issue was adjusted.
It would be nice to have another bat and I would like to see that happen but not at the expense of bullpen help.
The Bullpen must currently be our #1 priority.
kcray...aka you know...
That post was very close to a relapse. Give your opinions without the flourish of offensive words for those that don't think like you.
| By kcray on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 08:48 am:|
Diamond Lil, that's the pot calling the kettle black for use of "offensive words." And what the hell do you mean by "relapse?" My criticism is mild relative to some comments made on this site to other posters, including occasionally yours.
As I stated, Rosenthal generally doesn't get his facts straight and he certainly didn't on this issue. The question wasn't whether the A's balked at paying the rest of this season's salary for Dotel. The reason the deal was squelched was the A's were asked to give up two top prospects (Rosenthal was right about Teahan, but didn't even mention Garcia) for what Schott noted would be little more than a half-season's rental of Dotel. With arbitration looming for Dotel as a closer, the A's couldn't take a chance on that kind of expenditure or losing him after just a few months in exchange for two coveted minor leaguers.
As I said, Mota would be preferable to the underperforming Dotel. Even Urbina would be preferable. Beane and Schott were wise not to make that move for Dotel.
| By rocket on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 09:01 am:|
Rosenthall stated that the deal fell through for
financial reasons. Wouldn't the arbitration
problem be considered a financial reason? Schott
was concerned that if Dotel performed as the A's
expect, he would get a big boost in salary via
It was fellow posters that indicated it was about
this years salary, not Rosenthall.
What I meant by "relapse"? I meant relapse into
your old habits of giving offensive nicknames and being offensive to people who have a different opinion from yours.
AND most importantly and above all, being insulting when you speak of the City of Oakland and its residents. You already did that by calling Oakland the "murder capital of the world" etc...
Your past history on the net speaks for itself, resulting, as many here know, in being banned from all discussion boards you've tried to participate from time to time with different user names.
I tried to send you a message when I wrote that 'a rose by any other name is still a rose who will prick you with its thorns'
It really doesn't take more than one post Dan.
Lil, why do you think kcray is "Dan?"
I prefer to take the 5th on this one.
Send me an e-mail.
| By deajay on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 10:03 am:|
Well, according to the Oakland Tribune, the deal was, in part, to include Teahen and Wood. KC also insisted on Jairo Garcia, a young flame throwing reliever (with era of 0.30) at Kane County and that's when Beane shut down the talks. Garcia, by the way, was promoted to AA Midland, yesterday. Anyway, there are as many stories out there on the collapsed deal as there are newspapers.
I find Schott's comments interesting as to his not willing to sign a guy not sewed up for more than one year. Mota is on a one year contract. Though I don't know whether he is a FA or arbitration eligible, if either. Personally, as I've already stated, I don't think Schott is that high on Dotel ... I don't blame him, as it doesn't appear the Astros are either since it seems his concentration level is in question, as intimated last week by the Astros' announcers.
It would make sense to get a stud pitcher who's under contract through at least the end of '05. I suspect that the management regrets getting Foulke in the sense that, from the time that Foulke came to the A's, if Foulke was going to be successful in '03, then the A's wouldn't be able to re-sign him.
| By kcray on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 10:16 am:|
This is truly blowing my mind. I am not Dan Spitzer, whoever he might be. How could I have been banned from other A's sites when I have not posted on any other baseball website. This has to be the height of absurdity.
I was going to say Diamond Lil was paranoid of anyone who disagrees with her pet issues until I remembered the more appropriate comment by Woody Allen and apply it here:
"She's the opposite of paranoid; she thinks everybody loves her."
| By campy on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 10:26 am:|
kcray, what do you think of Marshal Petain?
Ok, kcray...I see you haven't changed much at all...too bad.
Let's suppose here that I am wrong and that you're just 'danguide''s soul mate.
I have decided to let this season's episodes of 'chicagorob' as 'kcray' revisited run its course (you may write well, but your short term memory is slipping... you used the same arguments as chicagorob as you are using now as kcray...not good).
| By eyleenn on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 10:31 am:|
This is what Susan Slusser had to say about the trade that didn't happen:
The A's did not swing a deal for reliever Octavio Dotel on Wednesday, although at one point they were very close to obtaining Kansas City outfielder Carlos Beltran and sending him to Houston for Dotel.
Now, the team is believed to have turned its focus back to Dodgers setup man Guillermo Mota, the subject of failed talks last week. Beane declined to comment on the day's activities but assured reporters that he is working feverishly to improve the club.
According to several sources, the three-way Beltran/Dotel trade broke down for financial reasons, despite the fact that owner Steve Schott had told The Chronicle last week that he would increase the payroll to improve the bullpen. At issue was the fact that Dotel will be arbitration eligible after the season and, as a closer, he could command quite a bit more in arbitration than his current $2.8 million salary.
Schott denied that money killed the deal, saying: "It was not agreed upon because we were not comfortable with the prospects we would have had to give up. We're trying to work on a deal that's in the long-term interests of the team, and we need to make sure that if we give up quality prospects, we get more than a six-month fix.''
According to one source, Kansas City was to receive Triple-A third baseman Mark Teahen and rising Class-A reliever Jairo Garcia (Astros minor- league catcher John Buck also was to be part of the deal). The Royals were said to be furious that the deal collapsed and now are believed to be shopping Beltran to Boston instead.
Btw, this is the last time I respond to your posts...for I know your need for attention drives you to much higher heights than you can control and we would like to experience.
But you will not be allowed to further disturd this community as you have done in the past to other boards.
| By deajay on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 10:35 am:|
I still think it has as much to do with the fact it was Dotel and I do believe it had to do with the prospects offered. Forget Garcia, just adding Wood to the pot, for Dotel, is too much.
| By eyleenn on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 10:43 am:|
I hope we see Wood up here before long.
| By asch on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 10:50 am:|
Listen, we know Schott is not going to just THROW money around and just add payroll. That said, I CANNOT disagree that getting another closer in here, just to lose him at the end of the year is a good idea. It would be nice to get a guy in now that can be here for a few years. Period. So, if in fact Schott axed that deal because of the dough and the fact he's a rental, I can't argue with that.
Remember too, Teahen is most likely NOT going to be playing for the A's. He IS, however, a very good prospect. In that regard, he can be shipped at another time for someone else. Remember, there are other trades we'll need to make in the future. If people are so damn high on Teahan, then maybe we need to not rush a deal and get more out of him then a 4 month rental.
I agree that this is a particularly difficult situation for Beane. It really has very little to do with Schott opening or not his wallet. It goes way beyond that.
Not only does he have to be careful not to lose good prospects for a very short term rental of a closer, but he must consider perhaps eating some of the ill advised long term contracts he made on Mecir and Rhodes.
So, as rocketman pointed out, the 'financial considerations' could mean arbitration or losing a great prospect for a short term rental which may still not be enough to put them over the top.
| By rocket on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 11:08 am:|
I might add, that Mota is arbitration eligible
as well, and may even be be eligible for FA, as
he has 6 years of service according to his
stats on the ESPN site.
Anyone know for sure if Mota is eligible to be
| By yc2578 on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 11:12 am:|
Like Teahen, Wood has no future with this team so no reason not to trade him.
I'm pretty sure Mota is arb eligible this offseason, not a free agent.
Mota was signed as a free agent in 99 by the Expos.
He was traded to the Dodgers in 02, so I think he is up for arbitration this year right?
| By dansward on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 11:27 am:|
yc, I agree on Wood. I think he's an easy throw-in. Great AAA stats, but not really considered a ML prospect.