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Newhouse responds to Crowley, De La Fuente Speaks

OAFC BBS - All Topics: Archive: Newhouse responds to Crowley, De La Fuente Speaks

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By rockridgea on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 09:42 am:

Darth2900-

I live in the Rockridge neighborhood of Oakland and go to about 30 games a year.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 09:49 am:

btw, 11 people from Elk Grove signed the petition in support of keeping the A's in Oakland.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By finleyshero on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 10:10 am:

Those of you requesting figures could see if the club has any such statistics for season ticket holders and whether they'd release them (which I doubt). Even with that, the A's have a comparatively small season ticket base and depend a lot on single game sales. As the attached notes, they seek to present the A's as an entertainment option in the Bay Area, not just Oakland. Most indicative is Schott's jones to move the team south. He may be many things, but he's not foolish, and he wouldn't be thinking that way if he felt he'd be sacrificing a whole lot of support from Oakland.

http://www.bizjournals.com/eastbay/stories/2004/03/01/story6.html

Point is, I hope you realize how goofy this Oaklandcentric attitude you toss out there sounds to many supporters of the team, regardless of their exact percentage. If it's an inferiority complex because SF can throw out the relevance of their location, and Oakland can't, get over it; SF is in a unique position most other cities are not. I realize many of you have a vested interest in the town, which is fine, but you've got to start talking to a broader audience. Oakland Warriors? Woo, I think there'd be about as much support for that as calling them the Golden State A's.

The worst thing that could happen to A's fans would be for a new politically-correct location to be chosen for a ballpark that will then have expensive tickets, inaccessibility for fans who travel from outside the area and empty seats like in Detroit or Pittsburgh. The best thing would be to have a nice park somewhere in the East Bay that will be accessible to A's fans from all over. Hmm...that sounds suspiciously like their current location...in Oakland.

As far as the wittiness of our respective posts, I suppose we've got to be able to entertain ourselves, if no one else.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 10:45 am:

Again, where and when did you read we contend the A's belong in Oakland because of the number of people who live in Oakland and go to games.

We never denied the fact the A's draw from many communities in the Bay Area. On the contrary, we have boasted the fact that 400 communities are represented in the ballpark, many of them from areas which would be alienated if the team would move south.

And as for corporate support. We have always said those are just as regional as the fanbase. There are no more mom and pop corporate support for teams that can begin to make a difference.

By going South the A's would have to build a new fandom, especially due to the horrendous traffic barriers from most communities to the east and north of the Bay Area.

And goofy to you or not FH, as far as identifying and appreciating Oakland as a city, I continue to say those that don't know it should make an effort to see instead of reading about it...

Many of us here prefer to be goofy than biased and full of prejudice.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By finleyshero on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 10:50 am:

Apparently, you prefer burying your head in the sand and hurling unfounded accusations over trying to build your base of support as well.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By tekgraf on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 10:53 am:

I currently live in the Fruitvale district and find that in the last ten years or so, things around here have become quite nice.

We now have a very nice shopping center. Home Depot has moved in. The Fruitvale village is taking off with new lofts above the retail portion. Near where I live, on the water front, Signature properties is buiding a considerable amount of housing and lofts. UC Berkeley's rowing team has restored their historic boat house and my two favorite resturants are near by. Pier 29 and Quinn's light house. Maybe we can find some place on the water front near me for the A's.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 11:19 am:

Apparently, you prefer burying your head in the sand and hurling unfounded accusations over trying to build your base of support as well.

What do you call "hurling unfounded accusations".

By saying you were in my opinion biased and full of prejudice, I simply used the criteria of process/result/consequences...

I accused you of prejudice because of your negative attitude toward a group and its members which I find unjustified.

I find the things you accused us of as unjustified because of faulty reasoning based on overgeneralization. Your rigid and inflexible beliefs, which I feel are factually incorrect beliefs, leads to your unfair treatment of our group.

Aside from all of that... my knee hurts and I really get tired of seeing A's fans bickering over something Selig will eventually decide and Schott will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By filthyslurve on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 03:57 pm:

finleyshero, you seem to have been around here long enough to know that one does not mess with 'Lil. It's a losing cause. Mostly, because she knows more than you on this topic: she's not just spouting about the actors in this saga, she's met with them on this issue. Secondly, because as a poster you will be ignored by the majority after the round of fire.

I live in Grandlake and, as an Oakland resident, I am opposed to public financing of a new park. I also feel there are dubious benefits to the surrounding community of a splashy new downtown park. Most here are A's fans first and seem to put any politics after their own desire to see the A's keep up with the big leagues joneses. From "Power to the People"-types like Mutiny to "Chamber of Commerce" types like jenmed.

Frankly, I am encouraged by the latest rumblings from Wolff, and feel a pennant or two (let alone a World Series championship) would force Selig's hand a bit on our survival here in the Five One Oh. I would prefer the club stay anywhere in Alameda County over anyplace else however. I honestly think that if the club remains in Oakland, it will be in the Coliseum parking lot, publicly financed in part, and a vertical parking structure will be built (think KC or Seattle). If something is built downtown or near the waterfront, scandal is sure to follow.

Lastly, it seems we've discussed this before, but the A's have identified (outside of Oakland/Berkeley) Richmond, San Ramon/Danville/Pleasanton, Lamoraga, and San Leandro as strong communities supporting the A's. 'Lil asked me to back that up several years ago and I honestly can't find where I read that. The only evidence I had was the placement of the now defunct A's shops at Stoneridge and the montrosity in Milpitas. As a native of Fremont, that sports crazy community is evenly split between A's and G**nts (as well as Niners/Raiders). A park down that way wouldn't change that either.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By chris_d on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 05:27 pm:

Couple things here:

I'm still confused why some think this board and group aren't regionally minded. There's a difference between being "pro-Oakland" and "Oakland-centric." There is so much negativity written about Oakland, and by proxy, the East Bay, that whenever we come across good news about it, we share it. Not to revel in narrowminded Oakland-ness or to plot on how to build a wall around the city limits! In fact, we share the positive info for the opposite reason. Rather, it's to create more of a flow between Oakland and its prosperous neighbors all over the East Bay. (As an aside, that's why the talk of Oakland's corporate base as a reason to move is bogus. If the Giants rely so much on Silicon Valley in S.J., then why can't the A's tap into Walnut Creek and Fremont and Emeryville money?) That's why we often post seemingly non-baseball events, such as the Oakland Film Office's summer movie series in downtown Oakland. I went last Friday and it was awesome. (And if you want to post what's going on similarly in other East Bay towns, go for it.) We do that because it demystifies Oakland to people. I told some of my friends in SF about the event and they laughed. Hang out in the streets in Oakland? After dark? Sigh, the ignorance continues. Maybe they watch too much Letterman ... or Radnich.

Now, some of the negativity about Oakland is true. But we spread the positive word because we know so much of the negativity is b.s. And that b.s., if left unchecked, may contribute to the team being unfairly taken out of Oakland by Selig and Co. Not just out of Oakland, either but the whole Bay Area, as some baseball business watchers think Selig wants the A's in Vegas or Portland before he considers San Jose. Selig is on record as thinking the Bay Area can't support two teams. NFL "experts" like Chris Mortensesn have said the same thing about the Bay Area not being able to support two NFL teams. That's an insult to the whole Bay Area, not just Oakland. Many of us call ourselves fans of the city of Oakland as much as the A's, because we're well aware that the city has informed so much of the spirit of the city's teams' success (HBO's "Rebels of Oakland" covered this well) -- from the Mustache Gang of the '70s to Berkeley Billy Martin, to Tony La Russa's weird mix of long hair/animal rights and hardnosed fundamental play, to Giambi's motorcyle riding, tattooed freedom expressed in Oakland (now being oppressed in NY). Even those of us that don't live in the city have come to love the city, which we only came to first experience by passing thru on the way to the Coliseum.

Also, when we stick up for Oakland, I'd like to think we're sticking up for the whole East Bay. There are many, many people (they're called snobs, technically) in SF, and in the properous counties just north and south of "The City" (sarcasm intended) who don't know the difference between Hayward and Concord. To them it's all just one big Oakland -- that is, the big scary violent "Oakland"(Tm) that TV news and the Chronicle sell to them every day. Their (mis)perception has become reality.

The six board members of this group live in nearly every part of the Bay Area, from Oakland to Marin to Contra Costa County. I saw a poll in the Chronicle in the late '90s that showed that about 60 percent of Giants ticket buyers and about 70 percent of 49ers ticket buyers came from outside of SF. I'm sure similar numbers exist for the A's and Raiders and Warriors. When we met with city leaders in 2002 with our petition results, (as Lil has shown above) we tried to promote that regionalism argument, saying, "Look at all these Bay Area citizens (and national and international ones, too) that will spend money in Oakland before and after a ballgame, if you'll give them a venue to do it in."

Now we can argue all day about the real economic benefits of a ballpark new or old, but my point is that regionalism is something we've been promoting for a while. And for those of us who've seen our teams get moved for reasons that turned out to be flawed and yielded really disappointnig results (see: Raiders, Los Angeles), it's maddening to see inaccurate and illogical (and some say illegal) rationale laid out by Selig & Co. to justify really bad relocation ideas. Hence, the Web site and the activism, which ain't a bad thing when the facts are on your side.

As for putting politics aside, as filthyslurve mentioned, well, I think it's more complicated than that. I'm willing to bet that Dick Spees and I have never voted for the same presidential candidate, but he is by far the most knowledgable, sensible, and professional Oakland politician when it comes to sports business. By contrast, there was one city council member, whose political stances are more close to my own, who was so rude, uninformed, mean-spirited and unprofessional to the HOK reps when they presented their plan to the city, that I was truly embarassed. So, the political view on this is complicated. For example, Democrats claim to be more sensitive to women's issues, but Jerry Brown's best friend (the guy was fired by Brown this week) is a wife beater. Politics are weird, huh? And complicated.

Lastly, of course everyone is allowed to disagree and debate, that's the point of fan forums to begin with. Ask sjathletics. He posted here he thought the A's should move to San Jose, and though he found a lot of disagreement, some of it vehement, the tone of his intelligent, respectful posts were reciprocated. He still posts here. But if someone wants to start a "debate" by comparing this group to one of the most vile governments in recent history (comments like "Politburo") and then sarcastically saying they're afraid to get out of their car when they're in Oakland, well, that really is no way to begin a civil discussion, is it? That poster's lack of civility was met in kind, not surprisingly. Respect begets respect, so please don't be shocked, shocked, when one's disrespectful posts are matched. That's human nature. Expecting more reeks of naivete, at best, and disingenuousness at worst.

Again, disagreement expressed civilly is what drives fan forums.

Now, Let's go Oakland! (and Berkeley ... and Orinda ... and San Lorenzo ... and Albany ...)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By dorrit on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 06:29 pm:

And Walnut Creek!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 10:33 pm:

Eloquently stated, Chris.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By finleyshero on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 07:29 am:

Youíre right. I have been here long enough to see that if you ďmessĒ with Lil, and she disagrees with you, she is quick to indulge in character assassination. It is her board, so I suppose thatís accepted practice, but it makes me wonder, if she does know more than the rest of us, why she has to revert to that.

If you canít see the irony in your collective reactions to my posts based on common stereotypes, I suppose I canít explain it to you.

So, letís see what Wolff comes up with, and maybe something good will fall in Oaklandís lap. Letís hope so, because based on the way you communicate with folks who share the majority of opinions, I donít have much faith in your ability to change the minds of those who donít.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 07:45 am:

Oh please FH...
I have my strong opinions but I do not engage in practices of character assassination. That is ridicuous. And I do not pretend to know more than anybody else. We have a goal and a cause which is collective and voluntary. We simply try to keep our team in Oakland where its been for decades.

And this is not my board. I simply moderate it and have done my best to maintain the discussions from going down the drain.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By goldtymer on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 02:29 pm:

I think that chris may have sorted this out about as well as anyone can.

I would only ask that chrisd's last paragraph be found somewhere on the main page of this site for all to see.

Lastly, of course everyone is allowed to disagree and debate, that's the point of fan forums to begin with. ............................................................................................................. But if someone wants to start a "debate" by comparing this group to one of the most vile governments in recent history (comments like "Politburo") and then sarcastically saying they're afraid to get out of their car when they're in Oakland, well, that really is no way to begin a civil discussion, is it? That poster's lack of civility was met in kind, not surprisingly. Respect begets respect, so please don't be shocked, shocked, when one's disrespectful posts are matched. That's human nature. Expecting more reeks of naivete, at best, and disingenuousness at worst.

Again, disagreement expressed civilly is what drives fan forums.


Chris nails it. I love the actual discussions and disagreements. I love when I am given new perspective or inspired. I like hearing someone else's view and I like hearing that people share my view.

I don't like when people jump in and insult the cause & origin of this website, the people who post here or the people who run it, simply for the sake of being mean or vile.

If confronted with malice, I will never actually hear your viewpoint. If you speak or write with knowledge or passion and approach a subject intellectually, I will be more likely to listen to what you have to say and "seek first to understand and then to be understood".

Even if I still disagree with you, at least I would still respect you, your right to an opinion and the grace in which you express it.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By 5thtimethecharm on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 04:25 pm:

I hate to wade into this fine mess but enough already, you guys. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if finleyshero had made his "Politburo" remarks to you face-to-face over a beer at Crogan's on a Friday night, with a big smile on his face, that you guys wouldn't have taken such umbrage. (Can I say "towering umbrage"?) Man. Didn't the Yugo factory crack clue you in? Cyberspace sure makes it difficult for nuance and inflection. finleyshero has a brittle-edged sense of humor; aren't you used to it by now?

I know this is ironic coming from me, who's been accused of being devoid of a sense of humor. (Hi, Jerry!)

As penance, you shall watch a week's worth of "Pardon the Interruption" alternating with "Crossfire."

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 06:51 pm:

All I know is that I'm waiting to find out who's character I have assassinated lately...

or maybe I missed the humor on that one too or 5th can clue me in and set me straight.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By 5thtimethecharm on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 09:49 pm:

Lil, I am your humor expert. Your laugh consultant. Your yukmeister. Ask for my cue when to laugh.

If I can offer some friendly advice (constructive! constructive!), at times you escalate disagreements beyond where they should go. You also have a tendency of departing from the topic to question the character of the person you disagree with. When I had my little tiff with Jerry, for instance, you accused me of being an enemy of the OAFC cause. I was taken aback by that one.

But when you accused me of being a Giants fan, that's where you went too far!

All of which is not to say you weren't spot-on with "kcray."

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By ronc on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 10:28 pm:

Gee 5th I'm wondering how on earth we've kept this forum and organization running for 6 years without your input. This isn't a Peace and Harmony forum. If people don't like the pro-Oakland stance of this forum then they should use their own money and create their own website and forum.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By 5thtimethecharm on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 10:49 pm:

Sorry, I don't remember being anti-Oakland.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By chrishorvath on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 12:13 am:

Mr. Finley,

First of all, it is pointless to attempt to qualify the affinity that the A's fans have for Oakland by comparing that affinity to fan bases of other cities because East Coast and Midwest cities are very different than their West Coast counterparts. Many older cities in the US are gigantic in size because they have absorbed all the surrounding cities and villages. New York is a big as it is because it incorporated the five burroughs at the turn of the century. This is not commonly done anymore. Citites like LA actually only make up a small part of the Los Angeles metropolitain area.

In other words, were this an older area, "Oakland" might consist of everything from Richmond to Fremont and from Emeryville to Antioch. So to compare a city like Oakland, which is only the center of the East Bay metro, with a city like New York, which is practically the entire metro, is futile. Therefore, it's as silly to judge the affinity that the A's fans from Walnut Creek have for the city of Oakland as it would be to judge the affinity that the Yankee fans of Queens hold for the Bronx.

Secondly, the reason why the A's are in Oakland, and why they should stay in Oakland, is because Oakland is an urban city. All the other municipalities in the East Bay are suburbs. In the past decade or so sports teams, along with people in general, have been moving back to the inner cities.

The Giants no longer play in suburban Candlestick, they now play in the formerly dilapitated South Beach. This is where people want to see games, in old-fashioned ballparks inside the city core with activities that are within walking distance; it adds to the sense of community that is a big part of baseball's appeal.

Oakland is, like it or not, the economic and political center of the East Bay. If the East Bay were one city, it would be the fourth largest city in the country and it's city hall would be in downtown Oakland. So if the A's are going to stay in the Easy Bay, they belong in Oakland.

Lastly, and this is what this is really about, don't talk smack about the O' and then get all offended when that smack is reciprocated. I'm a native. This is my hometown and it's where I grew up.

I'm not a big fan of patriotism or nationalism or any kind of "ism" that expects one to follow along soley because they're from a certain place, but Oakland is a big part of who I am and I'm quite proud to be from here. As a little kid, the A's were our team. Going to the Coli and seeing Rickey, Dwayne and Tony Armas wearing my city's name on their uniforms was all the affinity I needed.

So, like others have said before me, if you don't like the Oakland in OAFC, go start another site. Maybe then you, and your silent majority, won't have to deal with the uncomfortable feeling that you're rooting for a team that's home resides in a liberal and diverse city.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 06:58 am:

You also have a tendency of departing from the topic to question the character of the person you disagree with.

Since when "accusing" the person of being pro Giants or anti-OAFC goals (which is to keep the A's in Oakland) is considering "questioning a poster's character" or "character assassination".

I don't even begin to know a poster's character and I may strongly disagree the content of a post, but never considered myself clairvoyant enough to question people's characters when I don't know them in person.

Now...as far as posting goes...if you talk and walk like a duck...you should not be offended to be considered a possible duck.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 07:09 am:

And here's a clarification...just in case it was not yet understood.

The OAFC is a watch-dog type organization which was created for the sole purpose of making sure Oakland does not lose the Oakland A's.

We don't aim to entertain nor amuse anybody. If we are amusing, that is a bonus.

The OAFC is anti'Giants because we feel the Giants organization, along with Bud Selig, are together in their "death wish" of the Oakland A's in Oakland. So we indeed are anti'Giants and anti'Bud Selig. We are also anti Schott because until today he has not shown any concrete evidence of wanting to stay in Oakland.

If any of you feel they do not agree with how we act or feel about our goals. Please don't let the cyber door hit you on the way out.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By 5thtimethecharm on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 09:14 am:

Lil, when I wrote,

"When you accused me of being a Giants fan, that's where you went too far!"

-- That was mock outrage, Lil. Mock outrage.

Feigned indignation.

Here's a smiley face: :)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By finleyshero on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 09:45 am:

Thanks for your last post, Horvath.

Letís just say, Iíve been rooting side by side with you since Rickey, Murphy, Armas and then some, and know a hell of a lot more about Oakland than all of you think, so donít take my cracks about the place as anything more than that. But hey, donít crack on Piedmont, if you donít want me to crack on Oakland.

As far as questions of character, if you canít figure out what accusing someone of prejudice is, maybe you need to quack with some new ducks.

Funny, from your organizationís name, I thought it was a place where folks could freely exchange thoughts with others who shared the commonality of being Oakland A's fans.

I was unaware censorship was also part of the mission.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By goldtymer on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 09:46 am:

When did these start getting personal?

Criticize the post, not the poster.

Please, I am not speaking generally, read the string again and see if you are directly criticizing anyone, if you are, the post is inapropriate, period.

I have never before been a part of a forum or posted to any website on a regular basis.

I "lurked" and threw in a "test post" in a few different sites to see how they run. I read archives to get a feel for the flow and fairness.

I appreciate the OAFC and the cause in general. I agree with this cause and enjoy being amongst like minded people.

I do however appreciate that there may be people that are not on the same page with the OAFC cause that may like to frequent this site because frankly, it is a damn good site populated with sharp and passionate people with diverse knowledge ranges. Having shopped other fan boards, I can understand why it is prefferable to post & chat here. The forum is free flowing, loose and generous.

There are no perfect people, posters, moderators, Goldtymers or swings.

We all just do the best we can. If anyone should screw up, slam the post. If you screw up, expect your post to be slammed. That seems only fair.
Can we try to avoid slamming or criticizing people? That runs contrary to the rules of the site.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By chrishorvath on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 11:25 am:

Why are people so surprised that negative comments made about Oakland would be taken personally by people that live there?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By finleyshero on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 11:34 am:

Sigh (sound of head pounding on wall)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By 5thtimethecharm on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 12:13 pm:

De La Fuente said that Piedmont is like a doughnut hole in Oakland. So I've assumed that when finleyshero said he felt lucky not to live in the doughnut hole of the E. Bay, he was referring to Piedmont, as a way of saying that he prefers living in a regular middle class community, or somesuch.

If he was referring to Oakland, I would take him on a tour of the city. Like any city, there are nice parts and bad parts (think Tenderloin and Western Addition; Hunters Point). I moved to Oakland 8 years ago after 11 years in SF (read: children), but despite 8 years in proximity, it was only when we moved that I discovered how attractive Oakland really is. Is FH similarly misinformed?

I also think that finleyshero is of the opinion that a downtown ballpark in Oakland would be difficult to access for people coming in from Vallejo or Concord or what have you. He prefers the Coli's current location. But I haven't heard of other new downtown ballparks around the country that have serious traffic or parking problems. If they could figure it out, so could we. I would love to be able to walk to the ballpark from the City Hall area. Accessibility is an issue that could be solved in the planning process.

By the way, getting back to topic a little bit, is De La Fuente an obstructionist?

Also, do we have an historian here who remembers how Piedmont seceded from Oakland?

And why does that guy have "Ichiro" on the back of his jersey instead of "Suzuki"? Have we taken this iconic first-name thing too far?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By 5thtimethecharm on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 12:17 pm:

I meant "11 years in proximity."

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By chrishorvath on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 01:06 pm:

Piedmont was never actually a part of Oakland. It incorporated into a city in 1907. As to why Montclair and Rockridge are part of Oakland, but not Piedmont, I don't know. It must have something to do with the politics of the time.

There was a movement in the 1950's to have Montclair secede from Oakland and become a part of Piedmont, but it never had much popular support.

Interesting note: In the 1920's, Piedmont was known as the City of Millionaires because there were more millionaires per square block than any other city in the US.

Anyway, I think Jerry should send the troops in and annex the place. Those tax dollars would go far in building a new ballpark.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By 5thtimethecharm on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 01:09 pm:

Since we're the Politburo, would we be sending in Marshall Zhukov and the Red Army? :)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By chrishorvath on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 01:14 pm:

Why go all the way to Russia for troops?

We got the Hells Angels, Black Panthers and the Symbionese Liberation Army all right here.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By goldtymer on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 02:32 pm:

If you have not grown up around/In Oakland, you just cannot appreciate it.


In my younger years I was afforded the opportunity to live in Oakland (several locations)and see the marvels in/around Oakland.

Eating at the Elegant Farmer or Mexicali Rose or Golden Dragon (used to be across from the Silver Dragon), Mama's Royal or the Taqueria's Morelia/Moreno in the older days really brought a flavor of the city.

The restaurants along the port, Jack London Village at night with dates as a young man, Knowland Park/Oakland Zoo and the infamous spiral monkey cage.

The Alley, Fentons, Caspers on Telegraph, The Old Capwells Bldg, the Gothic Architecture of Downtown.

I was Born on the corner of MacArthur & Broadway and if you live there, you know what that means.

Have you even heard of a Colonial Donuts or a 1/4 lb Giant Burger?

I have taken a girl or two to Sequoia Point at Night. I have been to parties at London Lodge.

I danced disco at the Lucky Lion.

I have had original Everett & Jones BBQ.

I have Keys from Childrens Fairyland as a child and as an adult having taken my Niece.

I have taken walks with young ladies on the path to the benches behind/along side of the Clairmont.

I have had a College Ave Burrito on College avenue and I have sang goodnight Irene in the Graduate.

I have played the 9 hole course at Chabot Golf Course and have fished, paddle boated and walked around lake Chabot (I even know secret paths!)

Until I was 30, I never knew a life without Emil Villas.

One word...Juanitas!

Many festivals at Lake Merrit (and many jogs).

I have lived on Skyline and I have lived above and below Keller.

Some weekday, go to Pat's (a bar downtown) and see Jim the bartender, he is a wonderful guy and always makes his guests feel welcome.

the Rusty Scupper, the loft...

Wasn't there once a Magic Pan in Montclair?

Playing in Parks with Oak, Redwood and Eucaylyptus trees. As a child the white square trash recepticles with the big green oak trees were forever emplazoned on my mind.

I am only scratching the surface here, for those of you who have not had the time to explore or experience Oakland please do so before you buy into the bad press. I love Oakland, past & present.

This is a wonderful City rich in beauty, culture and diversity. Oakland has EVERYTHING you could want to see and/or do.

It really needs to be experienced properly to truly be appreciated. Drop the perceoption and explore Oakland, you will feel as if you found a wonderful secret.

Does anyone out there feel the same?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By tekgraf on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 02:54 pm:

You brought back some wonderful memories. As a small boy, my brothers and I would go to fairy land. On sundays, my parents would take us to Lakeside park and listen to the Oakland municiple band. We would hike in Redwood and Miller parks. Francescos, Senior Nero and Mz. Browns were my family's favorite resturants.

During the summer we would jump on BART and go to the coliseum to watch Rollie, Sal, Campy, and all the other great A's player. Remember when the bleechers were a dollar?! Hotdogs were 75 cents!

I still live in this town and I'm happy to see it coming back. As I said in another post, I returned to the Fruitvale and bought a place on the water front next to the Park st. bridge. Where pier 29 and Quinn's still exist. On Thursdays evening I will head over to Quinn's for a pint and listen to the SOB's sing and play Irish music. Hell, I think I'm going right now! I'll have a pint for everyone here.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By goldtymer on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 02:59 pm:

Oh crap, I love Quinns Lighthouse...it's been years..............

Please tip a pint for me...didn't they used to do peanut shells on the floor there (think 70's/early 80's).

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 03:01 pm:

finleyshero,

stop trying to spin the term "prejudice" as being an attack at your character...I repeat that I don't know you and have no idea what your character is like. I do however know how to read and know the meaning of the word prejudice.

I used the term specifically in regards to the "prejudice" you showed in your post in making accusations of the OAFC and its members. You accused us of being like the Poliburo, made disparaging insinuation in regards to us as pro-Oakland fans, and accused me of character assassination.

Get a clue guy, and stop doing a poor imitation of your old buddy DS.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By 5thtimethecharm on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 03:05 pm:

Gold, move back to Oakland and I'll buy you a beer at Pat's.

If I'm in a good mood, I'll even buy you an import.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By goldtymer on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 03:08 pm:

I would love to but...family business has me down south.

Have you been to Pat's?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By 5thtimethecharm on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 03:23 pm:

Yeah, I had a hunch that it would take more than a beer. How about two?

I've never been to Pat's. I want to go after reading your description. As a father, my main Oakland hangouts are playgrounds.

I live in Montclair and every once in a while I'll go to Crogan's to gawk as only a true A's geek can. "Look! It's Marty and Shooty!"

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By goldtymer on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 03:32 pm:

Pat's is different, the only draw is sitting at Jim's bar really.

Jim & his father own/run Pat's. Jim is a very popular bartender in an East Bay Oldies club during the evenings as well.

He is just fun guy and sometimes people create the charm in a place.

As for how many beers, I really don't drink much or often although I may look like a beer guy (Too many years in an industry surrounded by drunks).

I do like a good brew at the games and occassionally in the bars with some Nachos or hot wings.

I will try to instigate a group get-together next time I am in town (maybe at the Hof Brau on Hegenberger before/after a game).

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By lenny on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 08:35 pm:

GT, Tek,

Where exactly is Pat's? And Quinns?

I've been in the bay area all my life; grew up in east Contra Costa. I've lived in Oakland since '92 and it's the best place in the bay area as far as I'm concerned. May I chip in...

Pizza, beer, and a $5.00 movie at the Parkway (Wednesday night is two-for-one night!).

Having a drink with Peter Van Cleef; the owner of Van Cleef's in downtown Oakland.

Day of the Dead celebrations in Fruitvale.

Underground art and/or music at 21 Grand. The Xmas/country/indie-rock vibe at the Stork Club.

Going to the Paramount on a Friday evening to see a cartoon, an old newsreel, a classic movie, and play "deck-o-win"...all for five bucks. (did I mention that things in Oakland tend to be cheaper than in sf?)

And of course, going to the Coliseum to see Catfish, Reggie, Rollie, Stew, Eck, Rickey, Miggy, Huddy, Chavy...


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