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yc2570's 2004 MLB Player Rankings

OAFC BBS - All Topics: Archive: yc2570's 2004 MLB Player Rankings
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 12:56 pm:

This is something I did for another board but figured I'll post it here too. I just took the Top 30 players in games started for each position (and Top 14 at DH) and ranked them using five statistical measures: OPS, Value Over Replacement Player (VORP), Equivalent Average (EQA), Runs Created (ballpark adjusted), and Win Shares. I'm trying to put together lists for pitcher's but haven't narrowed down what statisical components to use. Enjoy.

Catcher

1. Ivan Rodriguez, Tigers
2. Javy Lopez, Orioles
3. Jorge Posada, Yankees
4. Victor Martinez, Indians
5. Jason Varitek, Red Sox
6. Jason Kendall, Pirates
7. Johnny Estrada, Braves
8. Michael Barrett, Cubs
9. Paul Lo Duca, Dodgers/Marlins
10. Ramon Hernandez, Padres
11. Jason LaRue, Reds
12. Damian Miller, A's
13. Mike Lieberthal, Phillies
14. A.J. Pierzynski, Giants
15. Gregg Zaun, Blue Jays
16. Brian Schneider, Expos
17. Charles Johnson, Rockies
18. Bengie Molina, Angels
19. Rod Barajas, Rangers
20. Miguel Olivo, White Sox/Mariners
21. Toby Hall, Devil Rays
22. Mike Matheny, Cardinals
23. Mike Redmond, Marlins
24. John Buck, Royals
25. Dan Wilson, Mariners
26. Brad Ausmus, Astros
27. Jason Phillips, Mets
28. Gary Bennett, Brewers
29. Henry Blanco, Twins
30. Chad Moeller, Brewers

First Base

1. Albert Pujols, Cardinals
2. Todd Helton, Rockies
3. Sean Casey, Reds
4. Mark Teixeira, Rangers
5. Jim Thome, Phillies
6. Paul Konerko, White Sox
7. Phil Nevin, Padres
8. J.T. Snow, Giants
9. Lyle Overbay, Brewers
10. Derrek Lee, Cubs
11. Brad Wilkerson, Expos
12. Carlos Delgado, Blue Jays
13. Jeff Bagwell, Astros
14. Kevin Millar, Red Sox
15. Ben Broussard, Indians
16. Shawn Green, Dodgers
17. Scott Hatteberg, A's
18. Tino Martinez, Devil Rays
19. Shea Hillenbrand, Diamondbacks
20. Hee Seop Choi, Marlins/Dodgers
21. Rafael Palmeiro, Orioles
22. Julio Franco, Braves
23. Carlos Pena, Tigers
24. Mike Piazza, Mets
25. Darin Erstad, Angels
26. Adam LaRoche, Braves
27. Ken Harvey, Royals
28. John Olerud, Mariners/Yankees
29. Nick Johnson, Expos
30. Doug Mientkiewicz, Twins/Red Sox

Second Base

1. Mark Loretta, Padres
2. Jeff Kent, Astros
3. Ray Durham, Giants
4. Mark Bellhorn, Red Sox
5. Marcus Giles, Braves
6. Juan Uribe, White Sox
7. Ron Belliard, Indians
8. D'Angelo Jiminez, Reds
9. Alfonso Soriano, Rangers
10. Luis Castillo, Marlins
11. Placido Polanco, Phillies
12. Tony Womack, Cardinals
13. Jose Vidro, Expos
14. Todd Walker, Cubs
15. Orlando Hudson, Blue Jays
16. Brian Roberts, Orioles
17. Adam Kennedy, Angels
18. Omar Ifante, Tigers
19. Alex Cora, Dodgers
20. Miguel Cairo, Yankees
21. Bret Boone, Mariners
22. Marco Scutaro, A's
23. Aaron Miles, Rockies
24. Luis Rivas, Twins
25. Willie Harris, White Sox
26. Scott Hairston, Diamondbacks
27. Tony Graffanino, Royals
28. Jose Castillo, Pirates
29. Rey Sanchez, Devil Rays
30. Enrique Wilson, Yankees

Third Base

1. Adrian Beltre, Dodgers
2. Scott Rolen, Cardinals
3. Melvin Mora, Orioles
4. Alex Rodriguez, Yankees
5. Aramis Ramirez, Cubs
6. Mike Lowell, Marlins
7. Eric Chavez, A's
8. Hank Blalock, Rangers
9. Aubrey Huff, Devil Rays
10. Chipper Jones, Braves
11. Casey Blake, Indians
12. David Bell, Phillies
13. Chone Figgins, Angels
14. Vinny Castilla, Rockies
15. Corey Koskie, Twins
16. Edgardo Alfonzo, Giants
17. David Wright, Mets
18. Bill Mueller, Red Sox
19. Sean Burroughs, Padres
20. Ty Wigginton, Mets/Pirates
21. Joe Randa, Royals
22. Chad Tracy, Diamondbacks
23. Tony Batista, Expos
24. Morgan Ensberg, Astros
25. Eric Munson, Tigers
26. Joe Crede, White Sox
27. Eric Hinske, Blue Jays
28. Wes Helms, Brewers
29. Scott Speizio, Mariners
30. Mark DeRosa, Braves

Shortstop

1. Miguel Tejada, Orioles
2. Carlos Guillen, Tigers
3. Michael Young, Rangers
4. Derek Jeter, Yankees
5. Jimmy Rollins, Phillies
6. Jack Wilson, Pirates
7. Khalil Greene, Padres
8. Rafael Furcal, Braves
9. Julio Lugo, Devil Rays
10. Omar Vizquel, Indians
11. Cesar Izturis, Dodgers
12. Nomar Garciaparra, Red Sox/Cubs
13. Edgar Renteria, Cardinals
14. Bobby Crosby, A's
15. Kazuo Matsui, Mets
16. Jose Valentin, White Sox
17. Barry Larkin, Reds
18. Deivi Cruz, Giants
19. Royce Clayton, Rockies
20. Cristian Guzman, Twins
21. Orlando Cabrera, Expos/Red Sox
22. Alex Gonzalez, Marlins
23. Adam Everett, Astros
24. David Eckstein, Angels
25. Angel Berroa, Royals
26. Craig Counsell, Brewers
27. Chris Gomez, Blue Jays
28. Alex Cintron, Diamondbacks
29. Rich Aurilia, Mariners/Padres
30. Alex S. Gonzalez, Cubs/Expos/Padres

Left Field

1. Barry Bonds, Giants
2. Manny Ramirez, Red Sox
3. Adam Dunn, Reds
4. Hideki Matsui, Yankees
5. Moises Alou, Cubs
6. Carlos Lee, White Sox
7. Lew Ford, Twins
8. Jose Guillen, Angels
9. Ryan Klesko, Padres
10. Jason Bay, Pirates
11. Eric Byrnes, A's
12. Carl Crawford, Devil Rays
13. Raul Ibanez, Mariners
14. Craig Biggio, Astros
15. Pat Burell, Phillies
16. Shannon Stewart, Twins
17. Luis Gonzalez, Diamondbacks
18. Matt Lawton, Indians
19. Craig Monroe, Tigers
20. Cliff Floyd, Mets
21. Jeff Conine, Marlins
22. Geoff Jenkins, Brewers
23. Jayson Werth, Dodgers
24. Terrmel Sledge, Expos
25. Rondell White, Tigers
26. Matt Holliday, Rockies
27. Charles Thomas, Braves
28. Larry Bigbie, Orioles
29. David Dellucci, Rangers
30. Reed Johnson, Blue Jays

Center Field

1. Jim Edmonds, Cardinals
2. Carlos Beltran, Royals/Astros
3. Johnny Damon, Red Sox
4. Aaron Rowand, White Sox
5. Mark Kotsay, A's
6. Jeromy Burnitz, Rockies
7. Juan Pierre, Marlins
8. Andruw Jones, Braves
9. Steve Finley, Diamondbacks/Dodgers
10. Randy Winn, Mariners
11. Bernie Williams, Yankees
12. Mike Cameron, Mets
13. Corey Patterson, Cubs
14. Ken Griffey Jr., Reds
15. Milton Bradley, Dodgers
16. Torii Hunter, Twins
17. Vernon Wells, Blue Jays
18. Garret Anderson, Angels
19. Coco Crisp, Indians
20. Marquis Grissom, Giants
21. Rocco Baldelli, Devil Rays
22. Scott Podsednik, Brewers
23. Jay Payton, Padres
24. David DeJesus, Royals
25. Tike Redman, Pirates
26. Endy Chavez, Expos
27. Alex Sanchez, Tigers
28. Laynce Nix, Rangers
29. Luis Matos, Orioles
30. Marlon Byrd, Phillies

Right Field

1. Bobby Abreu, Phillies
2. J.D. Drew, Braves
3. Lance Berkman, Astros
4. Vladimir Guerrero, Angels
5. Gary Sheffield, Yankees
6. Ichiro Suzuki, Mariners
7. Miguel Cabrera, Marlins
8. Brian Giles, Padres
9. Craig Wilson, Pirates
10. Larry Walker, Rockies/Cardinals
11. Sammy Sosa, Cubs
12. Kevin Mench, Rangers
13. Juan Rivera, Expos
14. Reggie Sanders, Cardinals
15. Jermaine Dye, A's
16. Jose Cruz Jr., Devil Rays
17. Michael Tucker, Giants
18. Brady Clark, Brewers
19. Bobby Higginson, Tigers
20. Jacque Jones, Twins
21. Ben Grieve, Brewers/Cubs
22. Jody Gerut, Indians
23. Danny Bautista, Diamondbacks
24. Richard Hidalgo, Astros/Mets
25. Juan Encarnacion, Dodgers/Marlins
26. Alexis Rios, Blue Jays
27. Austin Kearns, Reds
28. Gabe Kapler, Red Sox
29. Jay Gibbons, Orioles
30. Abraham Nunez, Marlins/Royals

Designated Hitter

1. Travis Hafner, Indians
2. David Ortiz, Red Sox
3. Erubiel Durazo, A's
4. Frank Thomas, White Sox
5. Mike Sweeney, Royals
6. Troy Glaus, Angels
7. Dmitri Young, Tigers
8. Edgar Martinez, Mariners
9. Ruben Sierra, Yankees
10. Josh Phelps, Blue Jays/Indians
11. Jose Offerman, Twins
12. Carl Everett, Expos/White Sox
13. Brad Fullmer, Rangers
14. Tim Salmon, Angels

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 01:01 pm:

Wow! Fascinating stuff ... and lots of work. Will have to look at it more up and close and personal, later. Giving it a cursory view for the moment, certainly some surprises.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By oaktownfan on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 06:08 pm:

Few things I have an issue with.


How is Soriano that far down the second base list? He's a legit 30/30 guy and although he isn't that great of a defensive second baseman, I'd take him over the likes of a Uribe, Bellhorn, Jimenez and a often injured Durham.

Mora over ARod, I don't think so.

Beltran is a young superstar and is only going to get better. He almost had a 40/40 season and I although he's not the defenise player Edmonds is, he's pretty damn good.

Vlad is the best rf in the game in my eyes. He doesn't everything well and how does Abreu be at the top spot when he's not the best player on his team, Thome is.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 06:26 pm:

This list is based on statistics, not subjective observations.

The 3 highest rated A's on these lists: Durazo, Kotsay, Chavez. Not surprising.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By oaktownfan on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 06:28 pm:

If that's the case, why is Jimenez and Durham ahead of Soriano?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By billymac on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 09:31 pm:

I enjoyed seeing Scutaro just one spot below Bret Boone.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 10:11 pm:

Remember folks, these are 2004 stats. And, note that Arod didn't exactly have an overall whopping year. This is not saying who the best players are, in order, but how they ranked for this year.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By brickg on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 08:14 am:

great stuff YC!! Thanks for all the hard work!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 12:19 pm:

OTF, sorry but Soriano is probably the most overrated player in baseball. People look at the homerun and stolen base totals and think of him as the best second baseman in baseball. When you look at the rest of his numbers though they just aren't nearly as impressive. He had his worst offensive year this season since his rookie year and that was playing in one of the most hitter friendly parks in baseball. Also his defensive woes are well documented. He definently has a lot of power for a second bseman but he's underwhelming in about every other facet of the game. A career .323 OBP is just pathetic. You mention Durham but to show you how deceiving Soriano's homerun totals can be Durham actually had the exact same slugging pct. as Soriano at .484. There are already some rumblings that the Rangers might look to unload Soriano this offseason.

Melvin Mora had a better year than A-Rod, period. Again as deajay pointed out this is just ranking how everyone did in 2004 and this year was a down year for A-Rod although he was still very good.

Right field was the tighest position at the top. Now Vlad will win and should win the MVP but there were about eight or nine players in the N.L. that had better years than him and three of them just happened to play his position. The National League just has a lot more star power than the A.L. at the moment as the A.L. only had the top spot at two positions, not counting DH of course. Bobby Abreu might be the most underrated player in baseball. The guy just puts up great numbers year after year and yet he gets snubbed for the All-Star Game every season so no one notices him. He was the best player on the Phillies this year, not Jim Thome

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By billymac on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 12:32 pm:

I hope Mora gets a good # of mvp votes he had a hell of a year.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By oaktownfan on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 04:57 pm:

Still to have Jimenez who isn't even in the top 10 second basemen in the leauge, hell I'd take Scutaro over him.

Soriano has his warts but I'd take him as my second baseman anyday of the week, especially over Jimenez or Uribe who themselves aren't world beaters.

Giles? He had a awful year too and he was injured for a good part of it so I don't know how he was so high if you look at this year's stats.


I don't get how you say Vlad will win the mvp yet he isn't the top ranked rf.

Drew had one good year and he isn't even close to the defensive player Vlad is. If you want to talk about value, Vlad might've been the most valuable player in all of baseball. You take him off the Angels, they aren't even close to making the playoffs.


But, hey it's your list and I guess I'm not going to sway your mind in anyway.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 06:17 pm:

OTF I think your missing a major point about list that's been repeated a couple of times...it's about this year ONLY.

Anyways how can you say Jimenez isn't a Top second baseman in his league? He ranked 4th among 2B in runs created (ballpark adjusted) and was 3rd in Win Shares. Name me ten better in the N.L. please. He's a good young second baseman. Again this isn't a question of who you'd want on your team this is about how the player performed in 2004.

Giles had an awful year? I don't think you have looked at this year's stats. Problem was he set such a high bar for himself after his great 2003 season. He still ranked 7th in Win Shares among 2B despite missing all that time and his periphials were still very good. Have to remember second base is a weak offensive position. Loretta had the highest OPS with an .866.

Also Vald is winning the MVP for the AMERICAN LEAGUE not all of baseball. Like I said there were eight or nine players in the NATIONAL LEAGUE that had better years than him. I really don't see how that is hard to understand. J.D. Drew has had more than one good year but that is irrelevent since again we're talking about just 2004.

As eyeleen pointed out this is purely statiscal analysis and I think your using too much of your own subjective evidence.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By whoknows77 on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 06:19 pm:

Soriano drastically underperformed this year as well. His k/bb, k, bb rates, g/f ratio all were pretty much identical to '03, though, so there is a very strong chance he will bounce back next year.

Giles is a 2b, and probably the best 2b in the game. It doesn't take much to do well at that weak position.

The top three RF are in the NL, hence, not competition for Vlad in the MVP.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 10:58 am:

I agree, I believe Vlad will (should) win MVP this year. On the other hand, had the Orioles been in the race all year and at the end, I'd say Tejada should have won it. Yeh, he is definitely helped with his homepark and the lineup surrounding him, but he had one heck of a year.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By oaktownfan on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 12:38 pm:

I know it's this stats only.

I've looked at not just the stats you pointed out in determining your list, I'm looking at the entire stats list and I don't still see how a Uribe and Jiminez had better years than Soriano, even though it was an "off year" for him.

Average, hrs, doubles, triples, sb, and the value each player had to their team and that's where I'm coming with my conclusion. I haven't looked through these rankings subjectively like you stated.

But like I said in my last post, I'm not going to change your mind and my mind won't change.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By dansward on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 12:43 pm:

Pretty telling when you see how low on each list the A's fall, excepting Chavez, Kotsay and Durazo.

Pitching won't look so bad, but Mulder will be overestimated by his strong fist half.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 09:45 pm:

I've done relief pitchers now. For closers the list has the top 30 in saves (although saves are NOT used in anyway to compare them) and for middle relievers/set-up men I took the top 60 in relief appearances, not including those who are on the closers list. Duke wasn't among the top 60 in relief appearances so that's why he isn't listed.

I used seven statistical components for closers: Component ERA (ERC), K/BB Ratio, WHIP, Value Over Replacement Player (VORP), Fielding Indpendent Pitching (FIP), Runs Saved Above Average (RAA), and Win Shares. I used the same for middle releivers except I left out win shares as middle relievers typically don't get a significant amount.

Closers

1. Brad Lidge, Astros
2. Joe Nathan, Twins
3. Eric Gagne, Dodgers
4. Aramando Benitez, Marlins
5. Keith Foulke, Red Sox
6. Mariano Rivera, Yankees
7. John Smoltz, Braves
8. Trevor Hoffman, Padres
9. Billy Wagner, Phillies
10. LaTroy Hawkins, Cubs
11. Jason Isringhausen, Cardinals
12. Francisco Cordero, Rangers
13. Shingo Takatsu, White Sox
14. Braden Looper, Mets
15. Octavio Dotel, Astros/A's
16. Eddie Guardado, Mariners
17. Chad Cordero, Expos
18. Danny Kolb, Brewers
19. Tim Worrell, Phillies
20. Jose Mesa, Pirates
21. Danny Baez, Devil Rays
22. Troy Percival, Angels
23. Jason Frasor, Blue Jays
24. Gregori Aquino, Diamondbacks
25. Dustin Hermanson, Giants
26. Ugueth Urbina, Tigers
27. Danny Graves, Reds
28. Jorge Julio, Orioles
29. Matt Herges, Giants
30. Shawn Chacon, Rockies

Middle Relievers

1. Tom Gordon, Yankees
2. Francisco Rodriguez, Angels
3. B.J. Ryan, Orioles
4. Akinori Otsuka, Padres
5. Juan Rincon, Twins
6. Scott Linebrink, Padres
7. Luis Ayala, Expos
8. Salomon Torres, Pirates
9. Guillermo Mota, Dodgers/Marlins
10. Scot Shields, Angels
11. Julian Tavarez, Cardinals
12. Steve Kline, Cardinals
13. Ray King, Cardinals
14. Kent Mercker, Cubs
15. Jamie Walker, Tigers
16. Rafael Betancourt, Indians
17. Carlos Almanzar, Rangers
18. Mike Timlin, Red Sox
19. Dan Miceli, Astros
20. J.C. Romero, Twins
21. Rheal Cormier, Phillies
22. Damaso Marte, White Sox
23. Antonio Alfonseca, Braves
24. Alan Embree, Red Sox
25. Brian Meadows, Pirates
26. Mike Stanton, Mets
27. Luis Vizcaino, Brewers
28. Jim Brower, Giants
29. Justin Speier, Blue Jays
30. Jim Mecir, A's
31. Chris Reitsma, Braves
32. Felix Rodriguez, Giants/Phillies
33. Steve Reed, Rockies
34. David Riske, Indians
35. Esteban Yan, Tigers
36. Todd Jones, Reds/Phillies
37. Duaner Sanchez, Dodgers
38. Mike Koplove, Diamondbacks
39. Ricardo Rincon, A's
40. Scott Eyre, Giants
41. Chad Bradford, A's
42. Paul Quantrill, Yankees
43. Randy Choate, Diamondbacks
44. Kevin Gryboski, Braves
45. Kyle Farnsworth, Cubs
46. Shigetoshi Hasegawa, Mariners
47. Gabe White, Yankees/Reds
48. Tom Martin, Braves/Dodgers
49. Matt Perisho, Marlins
50. Terry Adams, Blue Jays/Red Sox
51. Dave Weathers, Astros/Mets/Marlins
52. John Grabow, Pirates
53. Al Levine, Tigers
54. Jason Grimsley, Royals/Orioles
55. Mike Myers, Mariners/Red Sox
56. Mike Gallo, Astros
57. Phil Norton, Reds
58. Javier Lopez, Rockies
59. Roberto Hernandez, Phillies
60. John Rielding, Reds


Next I'll try to do 120 starting pitchers.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By oakfan on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 09:58 pm:

What's with Ramon being ranked higher than Damian? Did I miss something or were Ramon's offensive numbers just horrible? And no one can tell me he is better defensively!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By oakfan on Sunday, October 24, 2004 - 10:03 pm:

My mistake. I just looked up the stats and Ramon does have better offensive numbers. Did he come on strong in the 2nd half?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By dansward on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 09:03 am:

yc, that list tells us all we need to know about this season. Horrible bullpen. Dotel was a middle of the road closer and they only had him for a portion of the season. Middle relief was below mediocre and good old Arthur doesn't even show up.

Get to work Billy!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By finleyshero on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 09:06 am:

Can we acquire Braden Looper?

It doesn't look like he's any better than Dotel, but I just love saying his name.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 09:37 am:

Well, somehow "Looper" seems synonymous with our bullpen; I think they were all "looped" this season. Bottom line: The cost for Dotel for one more year = the best they can hope to get. Then, hopefully, they can concentrate on more pressing needs and hopefully have enough change left over to do so. But I doubt it. Unless Beane makes some major deal, I'm thinking this team is going to be less to get excited about than this past season. When you look around at our competition (which will indeed get better), it's pretty daunting to even think we'll be lucky to be even as good as this past season, which was likely a fluke in itself, anyway. Especially when you consider our offense was actually better during Chavez' absence. Then it was like when he returned, they said, "okay, the offense is all yours, Chavy". And except for Kotsay and a few other spurts here and there, the offense hardly showed up the rest of the way. Same with much of our pitching. Truth is, Angels should have won the division by at least 10 games.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 09:45 am:

I know he's getting old and injury prone etc...
but the Cubs are not going to bring back Alou and he's a right handed bat and would probably benefit from DHing etc...he certainly would not hurt the offense....

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 09:46 am:

...and he would give us a chance to go aloooooo
aloooooo or booooo and booooooo

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By bigthree17 on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 10:31 am:

I wouldn't be surprised to see Alou go back to play with his Dad. Alou or Dye would be good fits in SF. I can't believe Alou is 38 already. I remember vividly when he first came up.

I'd actually prefer to stay away from Alou. I don't think he can replicate his 2004 season, or even stay healthy all year. In order to keep him healthy, as Lil said, we'd have to DH him a lot, but if we re-sign Durazo, between him and Johnson we have the DH slot pretty much covered already.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Monday, October 25, 2004 - 12:56 pm:

Actually, Alou is a DH luxury. He is not a good outfielder, which is also another reason the Cubs did not pick up his option. I say, "no thanks"; let the Giants go after him.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By dansward on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 06:52 am:

dj, while you're correct that the offense seemed to thrive in Chavez' absence, I think you also have to look at the competition. The team was lucky that they were playing some of the weaker sisters during that time.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 08:04 am:

Good point, Dan.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 07:08 pm:

Okay finally the starting pitchers. The list has the top 120 pitchers in games started. I used eight statiscial components: Component ERA (ERC), K/BB Ratio, WHIP, ERA+, Value Over Replacement Player (VORP), Fielding Independing Pitching (FIP), Runs Saved Above Average (RAA), and Win Shares.

For the top spot you easily argue for Santana over Johnson but I'll just go with the results.

Starting Pitchers

1. Randy Johnson, Diamondbacks
2. Johan Santana, Twins
3. Ben Sheets, Brewers
4. Curt Schilling, Red Sox
5. Jason Schmidt, Giants
6. Roger Clemens, Astros
7. Jake Peavy, Padres
8. Carl Pavano, Marlins
9. Brad Radke, Twins
10. Oliver Perez, Pirates
11. Carlos Zambrano, Cubs
12. Roy Oswalt, Astros
13. Pedro Martinez, Red Sox
14. Freddy Garcia, Mariners/White Sox
15. Odalis Perez, Dodgers
16. Chris Carpenter, Cardinals
17. Tim Hudson, A's
18. Livan Hernandez, Expos
19. Jaret Wright, Braves
20. David Wells, Padres
21. Mark Buehrle, White Sox
22. Kelvim Escobar, Angels
23. Jake Westbrook, Indians
24. Brad Penny, Marlins/Dodgers
25. Doug Davis, Brewers
26. Rodrigo Lopez, Orioles
27. A.J. Burnett, Marlins
28. Matt Clement, Cubs
29. Greg Maddux, Cubs
30. Josh Beckett, Marlins
31. Bronson Arroyo, Red Sox
32. Kerry Wood, Cubs
33. Rich Harden, A's
34. John Thomson, Braves
35. Zach Greinke, Royals
36. Tom Glavine, Mets
37. Jeff Weaver, Dodgers
38. Ted Lilly, Blue Jays
39. Jon Lieber, Yankees
40. Kevin Brown, Yankees
41. C.C. Sabathia, Indians
42. Roy Halladay, Blue Jays
43. Mark Prior, Cubs
44. Al Leiter, Mets
45. Joe Kennedy, Rockies
46. Ryan Drese, Rangers
47. Mike Mussina, Yankees
48. Woody Williams, Cardinals
49. Jose Lima, Dodgers
50. Kris Benson, Pirates/Mets
51. Dontrelle Willis, Marlins
52. Jason Marquis, Cardinals
53. Carlos Silva, Twins
54. Brett Tomko, Giants
55. Mark Mulder, A's
56. John Lackey, Angels
57. Jeremy Bonderman, Tigers
58. Mike Maroth, Tigers
59. Barry Zito, A's
60. Randy Wolf, Phillies
61. Javier Vazquez, Yankees
62. Brandon Webb, Diamondbacks
63. Jarrod Washburn, Angels
64. Brian Lawrence, Padres
65. Adam Eaton, Padres
66. Joel Pineiro, Mariners
67. Jerome Williams, Giants
68. Kenny Rogers, Rangers
69. Steve Trachsel, Mets
70. Russ Ortiz, Braves
71. Paul Wilson, Reds
72. Jeff Suppan, Cardinals
73. Mike Hampton, Braves
74. Matt Morris, Cardinals
75. Jon Garland, White Sox
76. Bartolo Colon, Angels
77. Vincente Padilla, Phillies
78. Nate Robertson, Tigers
79. Eric Milton, Phillies
80. Kevin Millwood, Phillies
81. Mark Hendrickson, Devil Rays
82. Cory Lidle, Reds/Phillies
83. Kip Wells, Pirates
84. Miguel Batista, Blue Jays
85. Jason Johnson, Tigers
86. Victor Zambrano, Devil Rays/Mets
87. Tim Wakefield, Red Sox
88. Josh Fogg, Pirates
89. Erik Bedard, Orioles
90. Aaron Harang, Reds
91. Mark Redman, A's
92. Dewon Brazelton, Devil Rays
93. Gil Meche, Mariners
94. Josh Towers, Blue Jays
95. Victor Santos, Brewers
96. Ryan Franklin, Mariners
97. Daniel Cabrera, Orioles
98. Jason Jennings, Rockies
99. Sidney Ponson, Orioles
100. Kazuisha Ishii, Dodgers
101. Kirk Rueter, Giants
102. Cliff Lee, Indians
103. Jimmy Gobble, Royals
104. Jamie Moyer, Mariners
105. Jose Acevedo, Reds
106. Derek Lowe, Red Sox
107. Jose Contreras, Yankees/White Sox
108. Brett Myers, Phillies
109. Shawn Estes, Rockies
110. Scott Elarton, Rockies/Indians
111. Kyle Lohse, Twins
112. Wes Obermueller, Brewers
113. Darrell May, Royals
114. Jae Seo, Mets
115. Aaron Sele, Angels
116. Esteban Loaiza, White Sox/Yankees
117. Ismael Valdez, Padres/Marlins
118. Casey Fossum, Diamondbacks
119. Ryan Vogelsong, Pirates
120. Brian Anderson, Royals

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By dansward on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 01:55 pm:

Sad to see our starters rated so low. You expect to see 3 in the top 15. I really hope this wasn't the beginning of the end.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 02:56 pm:

Hudson would have been top 15 if he hadn't been hurt. Mulder was certainly top 15 before August. From Cy Young contender to being a spot below Brett Tomko. Yikes.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By dansward on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 07:30 am:

Zito is behind Bonderman!


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