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Epstein versus Beane

OAFC BBS - All Topics: Archive: Epstein versus Beane
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By rayfossefan on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 04:35 pm:

"It's not a crapshoot. The quality of team matters. The heart of the team matters. The advance scouting of the team matters." - Epstein


GEE NOT WHEN YOU HAVE 120 MILLIONS DOLLARS TO MAKE A QUALITY TEAM!!!!!!

For a team like ours, with 1/2 toa 1/3 of the payroll, of course it's a crapshoot. More than anything, a lot of it depends on teams that are collectively hot (Angels in 2002, Marlins in 2003)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:04 am:

I seems like our new boy genius is taking shots at our genius GM...of course he may have been baited with a question by a mediot.

It is Epstein's right to give credit to his brain trust and not luck that brought the Red Sox a ring. That is why teams go after that piece of jewelry.

We will always wonder what would have happened if Billy Beane had taken the Sox job...and we'll never know, so now it's Epstein's time to shine.

And we know the Yankees had all that money and didn't pull it off, so it isn't just the money that makes a WS winner.

Crap shoot or not, Billy doesn't have a ring...I think Billy will always have something to prove unless he gets the money and puts a WS winner on the field. We know he won't get it as long as he stays with the A's so talk is cheap for both boy/man genius.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By soxxinny on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:10 am:

Where was he taking shots? I don't know where that article came from so I'm seeing that quote out of conext.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:31 am:

simmer down there soxinny...

everybody knows that it was Billy Beane that stated that the "WS is a crap-shoot." So by stating "it's not a crap-shoot" Epstein was responding to Beane's quote...and disagreeing.

I saw Epstein's quote somewhere but since it was not me who posted it, I even wrote that he could have been baited by a reporter in regards to the "crap-shoot" idea.

what are you anyway? the BoSox damage control police here? I guess I keep forgetting that the "entire world" (another Epstein's quote) now has to bow "im not worthy" whenever a red sox fan passes by...

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 04:09 pm:

Well, I really think that when the 2nd highest spending team in mlb, with twice the salary (and likely more) of the A's does a whole lot to mitigate the "crapshoot" theory ... for his team. I mean, we're talking apples and oranges when comparing the A's, Twins, et al to the likes of the two big spenders on the East Coast. However, I must say, with spending less than their immediate rival, they certainly did a better job in spending more wisely ... this year ... than the Yankees did. It also didn't hurt them to face an NL team, which in the end, had pisspoor pitching (unlike the Marlins of last year).

It's really too bad they didn't play the Astros ... at least they had two bonafide (and maybe 3) starters with a considerably better closer than the Cards. Even had they played the Astros, I think the Sox would have won; but chances of a WS worth watching would likely have increased. Did the Cards even show up?

Me thinks Epstein is patting himself on the back ... wisely ... after all, it might mean more $ in his coffers. Even so, when a club has the kind of $ to spend as his did, well, he'd better pat himself on the back while he can. Looks like another winter of the two factions bidding for the best FA talent on the market. How exciting. I will say one thing ... even with their FA spending, the Yankees have far more homegrown talent on their team than Boston. The only homegrown player they had on their club (if I'm recalling correctly)was Youkilis, who didn't exactly impact their season.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By bigthree17 on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 04:40 pm:

The Yanks having more homegrown talent isn't so much something we should commend them for, but it's just another indication of their ridiculous financial advantage. Not only can they afford to acquire all the top free agents, but they can simultaneously outbid every other team to retain their own key players (Jeter, Posada, Bernie, Rivera, etc.). The only recent exception that I can think of is Andy Pettitte, but it looks like it was a good call by Cashman not to give him a guaranteed 3-year deal.

As for the Sox, Nixon is homegrown, and Varitek has only played in the majors for the Sox (although was in a different minor league organization).

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 08:47 pm:

Yes, Varitek was originally with the M's organization, so he is not "homegrown" talent as he was not drafted by the Sox. And I was hardly commending the Yankees for their homegrown talent; merely pointing out they have considerably more of it on their field than do the Sox.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By soxxinny on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 08:48 pm:

I'm not remotely riled actually, just curious as to the context. I hadn't heard the Beane quote so that makes it clear. And now that I've asked a one sentance question that makes me "Red Sox damage control". Wow. My mistake, I thought we could have a reasonable and non-combatave exchange.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By bigthree17 on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 12:14 pm:

Yes, it's true the Yanks have more homegrown talent, but again, that's more a mark of their huge financial resources than it is a credit to their drafting and development over the Sox.

The real test would be to see how many guys who grew up in the Sox organization are now good ballplayers elsewhere (e.g. Nomar), since the only real candidate on the team now is Trot Nixon (Youkilis needs a lot more time). Then you could make a good comparison between the Yanks and Sox organizations in terms of developing young players.

I realize Varitek wasn't a true "homegrown" product, that's why I didn't list him as such. I think you can give the Sox a lot of credit for helping mold him into the ballplayer he is now though, since he's only played with them during his major league career. I'd love to have Varitek.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 04:46 pm:

I understand the Dodgers are VERY interested in Varitek. But I can't imagine the Sox letting him go.

Once the current crop of Yankees' homegrown talent ages, it looks to be some time before it will be replenished. Course, with the Yankees and Sox always finishing near or at the top, it's pretty tough to get top picks. Though if the Sox don't re-sign the bulk of their FA's, looks like they will have several draft picks.


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