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Canseco v McGwire

OAFC BBS - All Topics: Archive: Canseco v McGwire
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By chrishorvath on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 04:00 pm:

I don't really understand the value hierarchy being used here.

Yeah, Canseco was wrong to rat everyone out, but at least he readily admits to his own cheating. And, if nothing else, he's helped to expose one of the great crimes in sports.

McGwire, on the other hand, cheated, lied about cheating and then cheated in order to break one of the most sacred records in all of sports. He even went so far as to hug Maris' kids with his juice-filled arms. I find that appalling.

In my opinion, McGwire is the worst of them all because he portrays himself as such a clean-cut character. At least Canseco, Bonds and Giambi are more honest about their own sleaziness.

All of these guys are wrong for cheating, lying and endangering the game. But McGwire adds extreme hypocrisy to the list.

Does anybody agree? Or is this just another example of the values divide?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 04:17 pm:

I'll get the usual crap on this but it has yet to be proven that McGwire took steroids.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 09:47 pm:

Bonds is more honest? Look, I'm not excusing McGwire, because cheating is cheating, if McGwire did indeed cheat. His hypocrisy is hardly any greater than Bonds' however. Bonds just thinks the public is dumber by coming up with his lame "I didn't know I was taking steroids" BS. And, that, only because his testimony was leaked.

Nobody, imo, tops Bonds' arrogance and dirtiness. Frankly, I'd like to know what Willie Mays really thinks about his godson. No, maybe I wouldn't.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By okplayer on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:29 pm:

right on DJ.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By leftfield139 on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 02:01 am:

chris I'm with you big Mac is the worst of them all

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By orangeman on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 08:46 am:

I've always been suspicious of McGwire. All those scars on his neck are a clear sign of roid use.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 09:30 am:

"All those scars on his neck are a clear sign of roid use."

Hmmm. And I thought they were from acne. :(

But whether McGwire cheated or not ... Bonds is the worst of all, IMO. Not even close. Further, you can probably bet that this arrogant $%&* will continue to cheat as long as the mlb doesn't do blood tests as part of their testing. This guy is so arrogant he chirped all last season how the mlb could test him everyday and he would be clean. Course, remember, the only guy he would allow to test him was his trainer, Anderson. You can take it to the bank, that was done to MAKE SURE he couldn't be detected.

He knows darn well with their pathetic tests that anyone into the designer drugs will continue to get off scot-free. Though he may end up getting off the juice, knowing he could walk in there some day and suddenly they've changed their procedure. And, besides, what better excuse for coming in much "lighter" this year, than his belated (well-timed) surgery?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 08:14 pm:

While cleaning out some OLD newspapers and magazines, I found an issue of USA [Today] Weekend from April of 1999, in which Ken Burns interviews Mark McGwire. It's hard to believe that a guy who sounds so real, open and sincere could have been a cheater.

http://www.usaweekend.com/99_issues/990425/990425mcgwire.html#four

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 08:15 pm:

The link does work. Just click on "Introduction" and you'll get the whole article.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 09:21 pm:

Boone, has of course come out with Canseco's allegations as being "ridiculous". Canseco, in his book, claims when he hit a double (or however it was he reached 2b) that he commented to Boone on his size and that Boone responded, "shhh, don't tell anyone." Per espn, the records for that Spring of '01, show that Canseco never reached 2b against the M's.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By gregorymark on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 12:14 am:

Per espn, the records for that Spring of '01, show that Canseco never reached 2b against the M's.

Are hallucinations part of 'roid use?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:10 am:

"Are hallucinations part of roid use?"

Possible. But if he is telling the truth, it is more likely he has his dates/years mixed up. I'm not sticking up for Canseco, but I can see that happening very easily.

How fitting. The head for Ostler's column this morning ... "You don't read Canseco's 'Juiced'; you shovel it." That absolutely describes the way I felt about that book.

Yeh, he makes some valid statements ... certainly about the mlb hierarchy, including the owners, Fehr, et al. And I believe there is some validity with re to those accused of being juiced. But, frankly, the female conquests (especially the chapter on Madonna ... puhleeze!) the sports cars, his continual self-references, "Godfather of steroids", being a great athlete (how can one deem oneself a great athlete while admitting it was the "juice" which made him thus?) and reminding us how "handsome" he is got more than a little sickening.

But the worst was not being able to get through a single chapter without being reminded of the race card and how every bad thing which has happened to him ... his arrests, etc. is the fault of mlb and the media ... got to be beyond ridiculous. But then I guess repetitions added about 10 chapters to the book. Geez, he even blames mlb for his last arrest and "mixed up" drug test while in jail. Canseco seems to be the poster child for insecurity.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By kevink on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 05:13 pm:

DJ,
I agree with much of your assessment of "Juiced."

Overall, I get the feeling Jose is very insecure. He claims he is not arrogant but after reading the book, I can't think of a better word to describe him. The "poor me" attitude and the stuff about being constantly descriminated against was pretty ridiculous, although he definitely is right about McGwire being protected by the media (I'll never forget when McGwire's wife left him because he cheated on her, yet there wasn't a word in the media about it.)

In the book, Jose points fingers at everyone but never admits to doing anything wrong. He also never talks about any side effects of roids except for shrinking testicles. This I felt was reckless and wrong of him to not talk about the negatives.

However, I don't believe he would single all those guys out randomly- I think he is correct that steroids are everywhere in baseball, and those guys he mentioned all probably used.

I found the book fascinating as well at times. I actually enjoyed the section on Madonna! He comments on many of his teammates on the old A's teams. I was surprised to read he liked Rickey and Art Howe. I also see where he is coming from in being misrepresented several times throughout his career, and was surprised to find out about the reason he left the team in the 97 season (had to do with CheapSchott).

Overall, highly recommend reading the book to everyone, and not just assume you've heard everything and know what's in there. Then you can make your own decisions about it and the man who wrote it.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 06:18 pm:

"(I'll never forget when McGwire's wife left him because he cheated on her, yet there wasn't a word in the media about it.) "

Wow an athlete had sex with a woman who wasn't his wife! I'm SHOCKED! Why didn't they make him wear a scarlet "A"? I mean I know there is a media circus every time an athlete cheats on his wife, it's all over the picture box. Next we'll find out McGwire drank beer and went to strip clubs! What a monster.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By oakland_j on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 01:03 am:

Canseco will be at the Barnes & Noble in Oakland on March 7th at 7pm for anyone who's interested. :)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By kevink on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 10:48 am:

I agree YC, not shocking at all but imagine if Canseco did it, it would have been all over the news to "fit his image."

I'm not defending Jose but let's face it that's how it was.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By asch on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 05:11 pm:

I actually didn't know Mac cheated on his wife and that's why she divorced him. I remember hearing about his wife when I was following his career when I was younger - college sweethearts etc. Then, during the earthquake game of 89, I saw him help this beautiful woman on to the field right after the quake and it was not the woman I saw in the photos back when I saw his wife. That's when I realized they were atleast not seeing each other. Was THAT the woman he cheated with??

As YC said, it's not shocking, but it is interesting.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By finleyshero on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 06:38 pm:

All I know is that woman on top of him in the Swimsuit Edition this week is sabrosssssssa!

No way José can dispute that.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 07:02 pm:

How about that pose? Quite provocative! Mac looks good, though.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By kevink on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 08:02 pm:

How do you do the little accent mark above the e in Jose?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By finleyshero on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 06:44 pm:

I put my tongue against the back of my teeth and lisp.

No, seriously, it's ALT+130.


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