OAFC BBS - All Topics: Archive: A'S Fans?
| By threepeat on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:06 pm:|
GIVE UP? We should. How many of us will still support BB after tonight's nightmare? Well, maybe yc.
| By renobill on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:08 pm:|
| By oaktownfan on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:10 pm:|
I'm a Beane supporter.
Nobody knew how bad the A's were going to be this year, especially the "veterans" that were supposed to carry this team.
I've stuck with this team in 97 when they went 65-97 and I'll stick with them again through this rebuilding era.
| By asch on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:12 pm:|
It's not beane's fault that the players are not playing as good as they should be.
When you have a CRAP team, the players are crap. our players are NOT crap, they are just playing crappy. That is NOT BB's fault.
| By dorrit on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:15 pm:|
In the meantime, the bay area and national radio stations are cracking jokes-it's awful. I don't have very thick skin.
| By oaktownfan on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:17 pm:|
Screw the bay area media. They have always been cracking on the A's even when they were winning.
Whether it was the small crowds that attended games the past 5 years to the downgrading of Oakland as a city still, that won't change.
We need a mayor and hopefully this new ownership group is for real in terms of building a park somewhere in downtown/waterfront of Oakland. If that doesn't happen, we'll continue to hear the constant jabs at Oakland, the A's, and the fans here.
Yes, I have given up Baseball Tonight and any radio stations around here.
You are right when you say it is the veterans who are playing crappy. If they were half decent, the team would be too.
Chavez has been the biggest disappointment to me. I don't really care if Billy trades him for prospects. The man has no backbone and is no leader in any way shape or form. I have had enough of him--2 months at 200 with 3 homers. Please!!!
And Macha needs to be run out of town. I can stand a rebuilding year, but this is not that. I would clean ship in July--everyone gone except Harden, Duke, Street, Calero, Scutaro, Ellis Kotsay, Swisher, Crosby, and Kielty.
And the next player who commits an error is fined $1000 and that continues until they go 5 games without an error.
| By okplayer on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:47 pm:|
HELLO. BB's punk ass chose chavvy over miggy. Chavvy never had a backbone. YC will chime in with some OPS shit...of course...he fails to take into account miggy plays more, and thus has a larger sample size to pull from. I'll never give up on supporting an east bay team. NEVER. I'll give up on this season for sure. BB exposed himself. Thought he was bigger than the game. Asswipe.
Oh yeah, Jose Guillien?!?!?!??!!? $3 mil. The A's are all "No we don't want him he's got a bad tude'." But wait, isn't this the org that's all about stats?
Guillien hit 2 bombs today, btw.
| By oaktownfan on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:53 pm:|
Guillen is a prick, sort of like what AJ has been for the two teams he's played on. When you're that talented of a player which Guillen was and you go from team to team even though you have proven that you're a big league hitter, that tells you a lot about what teams thought of him. IF he could get along with the Angels who were the winning team down the stretch of the last month last season, what does that tell you about what kind of teammate Guillen is.
Chavez or Tejada? Can we let it go. Chavez was seen by many as the most talented of the A's young players during this run. The guy was a gold glover and a player you could count on to hit you .280ish, 30-35 hrs, and 100-120 RBIs for the next half decade.
Yeah, it's easy to see now that Tejada is a superstar but we had Crosby waiting in the wings. Who knows if it was Beane or the A's ownership who didn't offer Tejada a contract, he's gone now. One player doesn't make or break this franchise. It was a 3-4 year slide dating back to when we lost Giambi, Damon, Izzy, and you could say Dye because he was never the same player he was after the injury after the 2001 season.
You don't think Beane didn't want to sign any of these vetearns the A's lost over the past 3 offseasons. You dont' think Beane would like to have a payroll in the top 1/3 of baseball instead of what he has to work with financially the past few years.
| By yc2578 on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:00 pm:|
When did I start running the A's? Gee must have missed where I've been mystified by Beane's handling of the roster in the Swisher thread. Anyways I'm of the belief that one bad year does not undo five good to great years in a row.
Yes and enough about Jose Guillen. You can harp on Tejada over Chavez or trading Hudson but I have no problem with Guillen never playing with the A's again. This guy was DUMPED by a team in the middle of a pennant chase last season. Not even hot heads like Milton Bradley and Carl Everett have that on their resume. How do any of you know that the same damn thing wouldn't have happened with the A's?
| By okplayer on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:00 pm:|
I keep seeing the ramifications of choosing chavvy over miggy and I don't like it. so i won't let it go. You also served one on a platter for me. You mention Dye's injury.
Remember we signed dye to a pointless multi-million dollar deal AFTER Dye's injury.
No bb doesn't want a top 1/3 payroll b/c he likes low expectations. That's his MO.
Crosby could have played 2nd or 3rd. Non-issue.
What about bb's strategy of having a stiff of a manager. I remember TLR and I thought he was an asset. Suddyl bb takes over and a manager doesn't mean anything? This is a joke.
| By okplayer on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:01 pm:|
yc, cheap shot by me and I take it back.
| By okplayer on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:02 pm:|
btw, I think bb's a good gm. when you're not humble you set yourself up for getting blasted.
| By oaktownfan on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:08 pm:|
Regarding Dye, who knew that the injury was as severe as it later turned out to be. The A's needed to get some good PR after losing Giambi, Damon, and Izzy that offseason so giving a 3 year 30 million dollar contract to possbily a RH bat the A's needed and could provide you with 30 hrs and 100 RBIs was a good move. But yet again, nobody knew that Dye would never be the same player that he was after the injury.
You can't be serious about Beane wanting a low payroll. He may say he likes the challenges of working with a small payroll but I doubt any GM wouldn't mind an extra 20-30 million to spend, especially Beane who saw many of the A's he drafted leave after every offseason.
Regarding Crosby playing 2nd or 3rd? Who knows? I mean Crosby does look like a player and a very viable SS replacement for Tejada. Still won't give up on Chavez yet. He's still 28 year old and should be entering the prime years the next few seasons.
TLR? You think he would've stayed with the A's rebuilding. No way, he wanted to be with a contender so he went to Stl. Howe and Macha? Howe wasn't hired by Beane I think and even so, he was still a great manager with young teams and that's why we had him here. Now for Macha, who else were we going to hire after we let go of Howe? Bob Geron the AAA manager? Look, I'm not the biggest Macha fan and will never forgive him for the blunderous moves he made during the 2003 ALDS but I do blame both he and Beane for not playing smallball and have been harping on this even before the season started that the A's needed to play fundamental baseball instead of waiting for the big hit or 3 hr.
| By okplayer on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:10 pm:|
oaktownfan, i was at the game when he cracked the pitch off el duque right into his shin. i thought his career might be over. so yeah, I knew it was a bad move from the get-go.
no i'm not saying we should have tlr, i'm saying bb the great s$$# on the notion of hte field manager and I say shame on him.
| By okplayer on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:12 pm:|
oaktown, i agree with you though that this team had to play small ball b/c they couldn't hit for power or average but did have speed and seemingly some contact hitters.
do think bb likes low payroll b/c he cares about looking good more than winning. he's a spinmaster.
| By oaktownfan on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:15 pm:|
Well you maybe in the minority because everybody else thought it would be simple broken leg which would've healed like 90% of the other broken legs you see in sports in an offseason and the player is close to what he was before the injury.
Now I know that the break was more like a bunch of little breaks all over the bone, description I read was it looked like a spiderweb, instead of the clean break you usually see in a broken leg. But even so, did anybody think Dye when he did "recover" would still not be the player he once was even after a full season after the injury happened.
Regarding the manager after Macha, I would like to see Washington get a chance. He defintely would provide more enthusiasm for the game and show a lot more emotion then either Howe or Macha did.
| By okplayer on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:17 pm:|
for a financially conservative team to pay $10-plus mil to a guy post broken leg is ridiculous. This team cares about PR? Really?
| By oaktownfan on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:21 pm:|
Easy to say that now that giving Dye that huge contract was a mistake but he was the bat the A's rode on for the last half of the 2001 season.
Again, even if Dye didn't recover well enough after the 2002 season, I think most thought he would become the player he was the two seasons after that.
You don't think the A's need to do something big after they lost Giambi, Damon and Izzy after the 2001 season. The fans were pissed and dissapointmented that we couldn't have kept at least one of them so they went after the next biggest name on the A's roster to secure for the next few years and that was Dye even after the broken leg.
| By okplayer on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:24 pm:|
oaktown, okay, then I'm waiting for another PR deal to make up for Huddy, Mulder, and Miggy.
| By oaktownfan on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:25 pm:|
We gave Chavez a huge contract didn't we.
Harden and Crosby got 4 year extenstions. Probably will resign Kotsay if he wants to stay here.
Then trading for Kendall who many considered to be one of the best catchers in baseball.
I don't think Beane does anything based on PR and how the fans will feel. He likes to say that
nostalgia doesn't win games.
IMO, Dye's long contract was a mistake and that huge contract handcuffed Billy. He gambled on a recovery that didn't happen. Dye probably would have signed for less or shorter term given his injury and questions regarding his recovery.
I remember at the time some of us here questioned his risky decision.
As for Billy and the budget...I think he enjoys putting a team together on a small budget because he loves the challenge of almost playing fantasy baseball with the other GMs.
The problem is that with the book and the way people found out how he almost made other GMs look like fools, he made a lot of enemies and having all that success also stirred a lot of animosity and a lot of people in baseball would like to see him fail (insert here Joe Morgan and Co.)
I believe Beane thought he could reload without totally tanking the present, but once the injury bug hit he just decided to test what he had and has realized he can't reload which would be the ideal, so he is probably going to make some more dumping of players who he feels won't help in future years.
Beane has a big ego, but he is extremely self confident and has already proven himself a winner. I don't think anybody should question what he has accomplished. The question is can he continue to be successful when the rest of MLB has adapted and made changes to counter his philosophy. I think it is time for Billy to make adjustments too...especially in this post steroid era.
| By okplayer on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 08:21 pm:|
lil, i've always said bb's a very good gm. I just feel like he's let us down the last two years imho.
| By rocket on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 08:37 pm:|
Beane has always talked about a small revenue team
having windows of opportunity to win a championship. He saw the window was going to close, with Hudson leaving as a FA, and then Mulder and Zito likewise. He thought he could shorten up the time to open the window again, so
he traded 2 of the big 3, while giving fans a team
that was not all prospects like in the 97 and before period. The only move that seems way out
of place with that plan was trading for Kendall.
| By okplayer on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 08:46 pm:|
yeah, the a's windown in oakland is closing rapidly.
This is just about the worst case scenario. A great slumbering toward the day the trucks back up to finally put this dog down. Wolff & gang can't possibly be serious about staying. Not anymore.
Well, I'm concerned in regards to the A's relocation but I don't equate having a losing season and a rebuilding phase with a cause or a reason to relocate. And most of all, I believe Beane wants to make the A's win again in Oakland.
He is exremely loyal to the Oakland A's legacy since he is after all an integral part of it.
I totally agree with Rocket here. We all knew the time was coming for the window to close and for the sometimes painful rebiulding to start.
Rich teams and big spenders never sacrifice the present while thinking of the future. But Billy knew he had to sacrifice the present and I think he learned from his experience with Alderson that prolonging the rebuilding by sacrificing the present less will didn't work for the A's.
I may criticize and disagree with Billy over the choice of players and his intrusive field managerial style, but I will never question his GM and organizational skills in maintaining a franchise going in the right direction.
One of Beane's forte is to have a vision and a plan of what he feels is good and right for the team. He sticks to his plan and he is not erratic and never influenced by what fans may want or feel. Panicking is for us fans to do and we will always panic, but for a GM to panic can be deadly for years to come.
I worry that he may have to make more adjustments to his phylosophy and plan, more than he precviously thought... but I believe he is bright enough to see what he needs to do and roll with the punches while sticking to what he feels he needs to do to win again.
As for Wolff...IF he hasn't sold his soul to the devil Selig...
What could be more gratifying to an owner than to start an ownership during a short rebuilding phase to become part of a new era and build a ballpark in a city who will be eternally grateful with fans who will adore him for it...
I for one would kiss his feet and the ground he walks on.
PS: I think I stayed out too long in the sun yesterday.
| By muddlehead on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 07:55 am:|
channel flipping yesterday, caught a news story about how oakland neighborhoods are finally joining rising tide of bay area home price increases. seems eventhough rest of bay area prices skying daily, some oakland neighborhood pockets have not participated. mayor jerry moved into old sears building converted condo. showed a few formerly downtrodden neighborhoods are now being noticed by home buyers due to their affordability. interviewed the mayor at end of piece. he said and i paraphrase, money from rest of bay area is finally coming into oakland. stressed san francisco and silicon valley money is so plentiful, it eventually worked its way to his city. my take. he's not the right leader to get us a new park. duh! perfect opportunity for him to talk about a jls/downtown park rejuvenating and starting the rebirth of oakland etc... but no. man, he's a bummer. you get an upbeat mayor, into the idea of a new park, i think it could be done...
| By samk on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 11:03 am:|
agreed. Jerry could care less about sports.
Downtown ballpark with built in shopping/restaurants is the ideal. Look at San Diego/Petco. Their shopping is 4-5 blocks away.
People need a draw to come downtown.
Yes, but ChrisD and I know for a fact (we were both sitting at a city official office and heard the conversation while it took place) that just before the City Council took a vote in favor of giving the negotiating rights of the downtown site to Forrest City, it was Steve Schott who was a no show when the city sent a helicopter with Jerry Brown to take a tour of the different sites Oakland had for a possible ballpark, including the downtown site. Steve Schott NEVER showed any interest in anything Bobb and other city officials had to show him. The helicopter went and came back without Schott so what do you except the Mayor of Oakland to do, beg him for his interest?
Schott was too busy negotiating with a guy sent in by Selig who was about to put down a down deposit on the team, Mr. Ladecky (just another one of Selig's Trojan horse like he used in derailing the Dolich group). It really didn't matter because Selig only allows a team to be sold to his own clan. THAT is exactly what scares me about Wolff.