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Dotel Could Miss 2 seasons!!!

OAFC BBS - All Topics: Archive: Dotel Could Miss 2 seasons!!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By chavvy03 on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 06:20 pm:

Wow....reconstructive elbow surgery. Guess he's not an asset anymore.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2074677

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By sactodavey on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 06:30 pm:

what gives me if he was hurtin last winter why did the A's sign him ? or why did he not tell the A's? this could mean the end of his career very serious, so we trade tehean and get 3 months of this guy while he hides his conditon and blowes 3 games for us.

man can it get worse for this organization?
all trades seem to be goin bad.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 06:34 pm:

Interesting new development...I thought two doctors had diagnosed him with tendon calcification of the elbow (commonly called tennis elbow). The most popular treatment for that at the moment is the needle ultrasound and lots of cortisone injections rather than surgery. But apparently this is a new diagnosis since they are now saying he has a complete tear of a tendon.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By yc2578 on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 06:39 pm:

Well at least he's gone after this year.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By sactodavey on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 07:09 pm:

that trade not only cost us teahen who could blossom to be a nice 3rd sacker but Mike Wood who has 30 inn pitched 3.86 ERA as middle relief, so Dotels injury is more costly then just losing him .

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By asch on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 07:22 pm:

that's fucking unbelievable - did we know he had tendinits PRIOR to getting him?

Does anyone think he's doing this cause we weren't gonna re-sign him after this year? I mean, he came out with that interview and those comments, he seemed a bit ticked, but said he'd be closing when he came back. Unreal. This is such a shitter cause if healthy, we could have gotten some good shit for him at the deadline, unreal.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 07:24 pm:

Well Dotel was an improvement on Rocky Road and lets not forget we have a nice sunny Street to travel into the future. :)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By asch on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 07:37 pm:

he must be a real wuss -I Just read an article that said he should have pitched the year, then had surgery after he signed a fat FA contract! Hilarious!

Good idea too.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By renobill on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 07:40 pm:

You're right to be optimistic, Lil, after all it wasn't the A'sphalt that Dotel got hurt.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 09:30 pm:

I had read that 2 docs said he could pitch thru the pain. He IS a wuss.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By chavvy03 on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 09:40 pm:

Ey, in the article I read, it actually said that 4 docs said he could pitch!!! Makes him a double wuss.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By jeffreyb on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 09:53 pm:

yep, the surgery is at his own initiative, against all doctors' recommendations!

really fits the profile of the closer, who's afraid of nothing, huh?

good riddance to bad rubbish sez me. he's most probably had his last day as an Oakland A, and i'm of the opinion that this is a good development, i.e., addition by subtraction.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 09:54 pm:

The only downside is that we might have gotten something for him at trade time. But if he's known to be damaged goods, he probably wouldn't bring much.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By oaktownfan on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 10:13 pm:

Damn, that sucks. So any trade for Dotel and getting something respectable seem to be gone with this kind of injury.

Who knows what Dotel could've brought to the A's in a trade but we got Street so I'm not worried about our closer for the next few years.

Street looked great out there tonight to get his first ever save. First of many I hope.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 10:18 pm:

In addition to the downside of not getting anything for him is the insurance issue. IF the A's have insurance one him, I would question whether they would collect when none of the four doctors recommended surgery. I would have to say it would be considered elective surgery, thus it is very questionable whether the insurance company would pay up.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 10:39 pm:

Spoken like an insurance industry lifer, deajay!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By bigthree17 on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 11:16 pm:

Now Sacto is bitching that we traded two minor-leaguers last year for a proven player. Also known as now making the exact opposite argument he'd been bitching about yesterday.

At least Dotel brought us some hope last year. Without him the morale of the team would have sunk so low we'd have been out of it by Labor Day.

But yeah, he is a pile of shit for quitting on the team this year. How very Olmedo Saenz of him.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By sactodavey on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 11:29 pm:

i am not bitching stupid was just saying it did not turn out and i am not blaming beane it was just unfortunate we gave up guys for a player hurt not beanes fault.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By rayfossefan on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 11:50 pm:

well this sucks, we will have to pay him but hey we have street and this is the guy we want to close games anyway. throw him into the fire!!!

nice win for us tonight BTW how about that $8 mill guy?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By bigthree17 on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 11:51 pm:

Let's count the punctuation in your last post and then we'll see who's "stupid".

Bitch, bitch, bitch.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 04:29 am:

now now boez no name calling please (notice lack of punctuation and sp in attempt to keep things light hearted)

Back to Dotel's situation. I read two different versions of his elbow problem. One said two doctors gave a diagnosis of tendon calcification which is the one they do not recommend surgery. The treatment is usually needle ultrasound to break down the stiffness and anti-inflammatory meds.

The other version I read that there was tear of one elbow tendon and that he would require a tendon/ligament transplant and this is why he would be shut down for two seasons after that surgery. In that article I read that the A's would assist him in his rehab and then lose him.

I don't really know which of the two versions is the correct one and maybe somebody out there can
find out before we put this guy on our forever hate list.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By asch on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 05:58 am:

All I know is that I don't care he's gone. I just wanted him to be gone and get something in return.

but to add some more lightheartedness, isn't this the time where BB will sign him to a long term deal ala Dye? LOL!!!

Street will be fine.

Damn, the team should have listened to me and dealt Dotel early this year!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By goldtymer on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 08:00 am:

I guess it is his arm.

Even so, I have a hard time understanding where he has his license to practice medicine and exactly how it is that he can make a diagnosis for himself that is contrary to four of the better specialists in the industry.

Is he crazy, a genius or does he need a different kind of doctor who might be able to help him work on clearer thinking?

Oh well..trades...win some/lose some.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By raiderjohn on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 08:23 am:

Just one more person out of the clubhouse who doesn't want to be here. Take the wusses out of the clubhouse. The good thing is we have Street and we're throwing him into the fire, boy it's getting to be a full rebuilding project, great thing is, we can still make some noise.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By rocket on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 08:38 am:

Why would anyone think that a team would insure
any player that is on a one year contract?

He was told he could pitch, but would have to endure the pain. That is the key, he would have
pain everytime he pitched, and particularly if
he threw a slider. That is the reason he was only
throwing fastballs, and got lit up in Boston.
He would not throw the slider due to the pain
it caused him.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 09:02 am:

According to what I understood, he is not only unable to throw his slider due to pain but because he is missing a tendon which he is going to replace with a transplant from another area.

And as Rocket stated, what use is he as a closer when he was getting lid up due to his inability to use his slider. A closer will not survive in the bigs by being just a flame thrower. We all saw that he tried and he didn't succeed.

Doctors give opinions based on their medical point of view and not based on a player's ability to throw a particular pitch which makes him effective as a pitcher and a closer.

This kind of problem happens all the time in baseball. Players are told by team docs to play through injuries and then when it doesn't work out and their performance suffers, they get booed out of town or labeled as dogs.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By pachyderm on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 10:13 am:

Here is Huston Street's opinion on the Dotel injury from the Yahoo! Sports article:

``It's terrible,'' Street said of Dotel's injury before the game. ``It's a huge loss for the team, and I feel awful for O.D. because I know how much he loves the game and how much he wants to be here for us. And personally, it's a loss for me, because I got a lot of advice from O.D. on a lot of things.''

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 03:19 pm:

Actually, lil, I believe all four doctors said the same thing.

From Susan Slusser's article this a.m.:

He does not have a functioning ulnar collateral ligament. It was torn sometime before he ever came to Oakland, which the team's doctors were aware of. He has pitched effectively without one which is not unheard of. "Sometimes athletes injure ligaments but the structures around them are strong enough to carry the workload.."

He claims it is too painful to throw the slider (his bread and butter pitch) and suspicious, folks might be, it is impossible to know another's pain threshold.

Everything I've heard about the guy is that he is a great clubhouse guy and a gamer. So, it's hard to say whether this is a right or wrong choice. Considering this could be career ending (at least to the degree of any past success) and will definitely hurt his chances for any big $ in the immediate future, it is unlikely this was a decision he made lightly nor because he didn't want to be here any more. I just don't believe that.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By rayfossefan on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 06:24 pm:

sorry guys but i think this is a blessing in disguise for us and street!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By colt45allstar on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 11:49 pm:

Well he did say, that he hopes to be back sometime next season.. and that he wants to stay in Oakland and would gladly set up for Street and pay for free.

He clearly does not really intend to play for free, however if.....


his recovery following surgery seems to be going well.

We are able to get him for a major major discount (talking league minimum or close, with perhaps a few incentives thrown in)

The team feels confident, he would indeed be happy going back to setting up...

These three things happen and I would actually not be too much against the idea of bringing him back.

The guy was not cut out for closing, much too inconsistent and lacked the composure for it.. but he has proven to be a dynamite setup man over his career.

I think he's gone regardless, don't see the team being willing to take the risk, regardless of how cheap we could have him for.

If I was in charge of the team's movements, I truly would consider the possibility though.. again only assuming all three of the above conditions are met.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By asch on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 05:21 am:

Listen, nobodys is arguing that we want street to close, but the big loss here is not his presence NOW, but the ability to get something for him later.

The funny thing is, even if he didn't pitch too well till the deadline, I bet there would still be agreat deal for him somewhere.....

that's what is sad.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By okplayer on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 09:17 am:

bingo. most are stoked that street's closing and expected it. dotel was one of our few remaining bargaining chips. God, the only guy I could see a team wanting from this squad now is Zito (I'm speaking of veteran guys who could be on the block...not our prospects.)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By deajay on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 11:14 am:

In the meantime, I hope that Macha and crew use a great deal of prudence with re to Street and not burn him out. It will really help too, if Calero comes back healthy, because then he could also take over some of the closer duties. Hah! That is if we ever have back to back games close enough to close!

Last I saw, Jairo Garcia's era is blooming upwards, too. He may be another Jesus Colome and the A's will not be patient enough with him. Though Colome never quite made it to the closer role. I'm far from convinced that Garcia will.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 10:04 pm:

Street looked good again tonight. I can't say I miss Dotel one bit.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By jeffreyb on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 08:13 am:

Ratto on Dotel's decision...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=ratto_ray&id=2075351

an excerpt:

I mean, a guy who pushes his career and his paydays into the middle of the pot and says, "I'm a better doctor than you are" has hole cards of great power and import.

Or he's reached the end of his own personal rope.

Or he's just a whack job.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By goldtymer on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 08:46 am:

I agree that there is no way to judge anothers pain threshold (short of kicking him in the jewels). I do see Dotel as a little "off" though.

Dotel is a set up man who has been put into the closer role. It isn't like the guy is Eck or Smoltz..

Dotel seems like a nice dude with a good attitude but...

Dotel's contribution to the Oakland A's as a reliever so far is less than Eric Plunk. So why, I repeat why do I read about how excited he is to teach Houston Street how to close?

If the numbers and what you have proven on the field as a closer matter, Billy Taylor is a better candidate to teach Street how to close. By the time Dotel pitches again in a big league uniform, Street will have double Dotels "closer experience".

My confusion comes in trying to determine whether Dotel came up with that idea by himself or if the A's actually told Dotel he could mentor the kid.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By finleyshero on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 09:49 am:

Just as long a Francisco Cordero doesn't try to impart any "jewels" of wisdom about how to handle yourself when you close out a game.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By rocket on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 12:14 pm:

Dotel's closer experience is really limited, do
not see any real mentoring of Street happening.
Just one of those pr lines a guy in Dotel's position is required to spout for the press.


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