this is jay payton, THIS is what we got! read this!!!
OAFC BBS - All Topics: Archive: this is jay payton, THIS is what we got! read this!!!
| By ohiofan on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 12:22 pm:|
I'm sad to see Byrnes go and I wish him luck. I'll keep following him 'cuz I love watching him play.
I was not sad to see Guillen go. He did not produce for the time we had rented him and he carried the legacy of a "clubhouse cancer" with him.
Then the Angels got him and he was killing it for them. Over 100 RBI, OBPS .849, etc etc but his attitude was so bad that the Angels, still trying to catch the A's last year, benched him for the most important part of their season.
He seems to have his head screwed on right this year, good for him. I wish him all the best in the National League, but he was not right for the A's.
| By jenmed on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 12:32 pm:|
All Guillen did in the 2003 post season was hit .455 with a broken bone in his hand.
Yeah, he had a so-so .265 average for us in the regular season and rarely walked, but he had great defense and you can't overlook those division series numbers.
| By raiderjohn on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 12:37 pm:|
Guillen did not produce for us? What, he hit 8 dingers and drove in 23 runs while scoring 45 times in 170 at bats. He played with a broken hamate bone in the playoffs and still batted 411. But letting him go was the right thing, he was picked up for the stretch run, aside from Byrnes not attempting to touch home and Tejada giving up on a play in the SAME inning, who knows the A's might have played for it all in 2003. Even though things look great now....I can see something else happening later....MLB's Ron Artest.
If Jay Payton did not get along well with the @$$holes in Boston then he is welcome on my team. I hate everyone in Boston too.
| By ohiofan on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 12:52 pm:|
All Guiilen saw was 14 plate appearances. .455 is great but I'll cherry pich a couple of stats: 1 RUN, 1 RBI in 4 games for the 2003 postseason. The point of my post is not that he may or may not produce when you need him to, it's that his attitude is so bad that the Angels benched him during the most important part of their season last year, and then their post-season. The A's need quality veteran leadership because they will always have a young team, and Guillen was certainly not that.
| By goldtymer on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 12:54 pm:|
My first reaction was of relief. I only wish Byrnes had been traded sooner because I feel he deserved a little more respect from the A's than he received.
I also think it is absolutely unfair to call the folks who liked Byrnes and are sorry to see him go, Beane detractors.
As a fan, I feel I deserve the right to have nostalgia and to feel for a player that reminds me of every little leaguer who never stops trying but is not gifted enough to be a star.
That doesn't make me a Beane detractor. Beane has to do his job as a GM and I don't have to like all his decisions and I don't have to feel he can do no wrong.
I also think Beane is an excellent GM who may not always be right but is almost never wrong. I admire him and as an A's fan feel fortunate he is the GM.
To me, Byrnes was the Eric Fox of the early 90's.
It is the Foxes and the Byrnes who keep me bonded with the game...more than the big stars, except Rickey of course he will always be my baseball love...and I know that because of this love of baseball, I will always have a broken heart.
| By eyleenn on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 12:57 pm:|
Nice post, lf139!
| By asch on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 01:02 pm:|
agreed, great post. He'll fit in fine here.
| By raiderjohn on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 01:06 pm:|
I don't think Guillen was brought in for veteran leadership we had Hatteberg, we had Tejada that year. Guillen was brought for his hitting. He was low risk being it was the last year of his deal.
| By oaktownfan on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 01:30 pm:|
My label on the Beane detractors are directed to those last night who were calling Beane every name in the book and thinking he's a idiot.
the thing about Beane is that he is kind of like a ship's captain. you might not like them right away, but they are for the good of the ship. Beane breaks my heart all the time (Giambi, Miggy, Hudson, Mulder, Byrnes) but in the end we love him and we know he is doing this for what he thinks will make us a winner. Sometimes he makes mistakes (Rhodes - a good pitcher put into a wrong role) but he makes more good ones than bad.
| By asch on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 02:07 pm:|
IF Huddy is injured every year and IF Mulder puts up similar numbers to Haren but Haren costs much less, are those trades then finally considered successes?
We'll have to wait to see how it pans out in a few years.
| By raiderjohn on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 02:12 pm:|
The thing about the A's, we can't afford mistakes, the Rhodes mistake a year ago might have cost us the AL West Crown. I haven't really heard much about it, but being the race went down to the end, we could have won a couple of early games. But with psychologically challenged Mulder, it would have been a 1 and done again.
| By asch on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 02:15 pm:|
jeez you guys.
Okay after Foulke screwed us by lying, WHAT closers were left?
Please tell me who was a better available option other than Rhodes.
| By oaktownfan on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 02:21 pm:|
Yeah, the A's were up 3 games with 2 weeks to go last year; we can't blame what happened the first month. We had the lead, we blew it. We are supposed to be a great closing team in the regular season but when 10-17 down the stretch.
| By asch on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 02:24 pm:|
Yeah - if you are gonna blame anyone I got two words for you - mark mulder.
| By jenmed on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 02:50 pm:|
FWIW, Guillen is by all accounts loved by his teammates and manager in Washington and is considered a team leader. And my point was that this guy had a broken hand and still produced at a .455 clip. Just because someone has conflicts with Mike Scioscia doesn't make them a cancer in my book, and I love Guillen's fire.
At any rate, enough with Guillen. I like our team fine as it is.
| By oaktownfan on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 03:06 pm:|
Guillen played for 6 teams in 7 years!
That tells you something about him that he had so much potential yet not even a team was willing to give him more than one year.
| By jeffreyb on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 03:24 pm:|
>Please tell me who was a better available option other than Rhodes.
For reasons I'll never understand, Ugeth Urbina went un-signed till late spring, when Detroit picked him up.
| By jenmed on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 03:30 pm:|
Well, Guillen seems to have found his niche now.
| By asch on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 07:53 am:|
does this make you feel better or worse? As posted above, anyone who wants out of boston is a friend of mine:
Jay Payton admitted last night that he intentionally confronted Terry Francona in the visitors dugout at Ameriquest Field on July 6 in hope that it would free him from his undesired role as the Red Sox [stats, schedule]' fourth outfielder and hasten his departure.
Payton got in a shouting match with the Sox manager during the late innings of a game vs. Texas after fearing that he would miss getting an at-bat due to a double-switch with John Olerud, who was also inserted into the game at the same time. In full view of the bench, he got in an exchange with Francona that was so heated the team immediately designated Payton for assignment and refused to allow him to accompany the team to Baltimore. General manager Theo Epstein immediately traded him to Oakland for relief pitcher Chad Bradford but the deal wasn't announced, due to logistical reasons, until Wednesday.
``More than anything, I took that as an opportunity to accelerate the process and make something happen,'' Payton told reporters prior to Oakland's game last night vs. Texas. ``In my mind, there was a window for me to accelerate the process and maybe make something happen. I was obviously upset but there wasn't anger.''
Payton said he meant no ill will toward Francona, Epstein nor his teammates but simply wanted to be with a team that would allow him to play more.
``I think Terry is a great man and a great manager,'' he said. ``Same with the organization. Theo and those guys treated me well. But for a guy who is used to playing every day, to go there and be in a situation I was in, I didn't want to be there before they got me. More than anything, like I said, it was an opportunity to say something because they were saying there wasn't too much in the works as far as a trade. It wasn't that big a deal. It lasted five seconds. I had my say. I asked to be out of there. They met my wishes.''
I get the feeling Payton knows he won't be sticking around Oakland as a fourth outfielder either. He probably knows Beane will be working on another trade which will accomodate his wishes again.
Otherwise, Beane may have decided to move Swisher to 1B or he has given up on his pet boy Kielty...
It would be crazy to get a guy who stated he forced a trade because he wants to play and then make him sit in Oakland as a platoon player.
| By asch on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 09:02 am:|
hmmm...I kind of see that lil, but on the other hand, BB really likes Paytong - they looked into getting him a few years ago. So I wouldn't be shocked to see that this is our OF - 4 of them, with Swish playing some 1b to accomodate the other 3 starting sometimes.
| By samk on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 09:09 am:|
Payton also stated that he was somehow misled before he went to Boston, in that he expected to to play more from the beginning. He did say that he asked Epstein to trade him much earlier in the season but nothing much was happening.
So far, he is at least saying the right things about being happy to be here, etc.
| By asch on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 09:19 am:|
I don't think asking for a trade means you get one, so that's one thing.
I am happy to have him here if he's gonna contibute and be a team player. From his stand point, the Red Sox give him a good shot at winning a WS or atleast getting to the playoffs. There is no team hotter than us right now, and we aren't even supposed to be here. If he wants to win a be a team player, he'll be a team player...we'll see what happens.
Wish I could watch the game tonight.
| By eyleenn on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 09:33 am:|
Payton also told both the Padres and the Sux from the outset that he did NOT want to play in Boston.
| By asch on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 11:07 am:|
really? why was that?
Payton's the backup CF'er the A's don't have. Now that the A's have an investment in Kotsay's future, they need to give him some days off. I don't see Payton going anywhere.
Soon what you're saying is that Payton's problem was not that he wanted to play more but that he didn't want to play in Boston. And therefore he will accept to being the backup 4th OFer to Kotsay just because he's in Oakland?
Maybe but then the story wasn't told right from the start.
| By eyleenn on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 05:16 pm:|
Allegedly he knew that with Boston's strong OF'ers, he would get very little playing time.
| By oaktownfan on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 05:50 pm:|
Well, when your LF/CF are Manny/Damon, that only leaves one spot and that's going to Nixon and he's have a great year.
He just hit a grandslam tonight against the Yanks, and remember before all his injuries, Nixon was as highly touted as the BoSox best OF prospect and it looks like he's living up to it.
| By jeffreyb on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 07:58 pm:|
really, it's that simple. The Sox outfielders are/were gonna play every day. Kotsay aside, there are lots of ABs for right and left fielders. Payton has said he accepts that; i take him at his word.
and he can be disgruntled for all i care, so long as he hits home runs in his first AB as an A!
| By eyleenn on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 08:51 pm:|
Damon has a 27-game hitting streak.