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A's fire manager Ken Macha!!

OAFC BBS - All Topics: Archive: A's fire manager Ken Macha!!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By okplayer on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 09:56 pm:

well beane will be officially a cock in my book if he passes on wash for his buddy. well said jesse. the a's players should lobby for wash instead of bad mouthing macha. ever heard of "kicking a horse while he's down" geesh. macha's gone and lobby for wash. done.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 03:18 am:

add to Washington's resume how he helped Tejada develop...he was very raw talent and had a huge communication problem when he first arrived...

there goes the c word again...this team needs to gel with the manager and without the c word it becomes just an extension of Beane...and we already know that his talent pool is great but not enough to win as a team when the chips are down.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By asch on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 06:37 am:

okplayer, be ready for Beane to be a cock. The timing of this all makes everyone get excited that Wash may be the guy, but we have passed on him before and as I have mentioned, the A's have FULLY endorsed him for any managerial job, but I don't think they want him. It'll be SUCH a puss move to hire Geren. Honestly, I don't know much of the man, but to pass on Wash who's been with the club longer, for a guy who's not been with the team long and who's the best friend of Beane, is such a slap in the face to everyone, specifically Wash. Geren may be great, but I don't feel he's put in his "due" - specifically with this club, like Wash has. Period.

And again, I think if Wash has his choice between Oakland and any other club to manage, he'll go with the other club and I can't blame him.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By jerryo1 on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 10:03 am:

This is classic:

A great Beane-Macha moment I just remembered
By Tim Kawakami, San Jose Mercury News, 10/18/06

I saw the Billy Beane-Ken Macha relationship/non-relationship crystallized in one gesture and one moment not long ago, which I forgot amid the blur of Macha’s firing two days ago.
I just remembered it. The Billy gesture. It was classic.
This was August of last year, I think, in middle of the A’s latest mid-summer race back into contention.
They’d been terrible in May. Just awful. Remember: Beane traded Tim Hudson and Mark Mulder the previous December, the team started slow then just tanked in May.
The A’s revived in July, then took off in August. I was there to write about this being Beane’s greatest achievement–the re-making, under high criticism, of the A’s, once again, to a team that can press for a title for years and years.
So I saw Billy after a game and asked to talk to him. He said fine, but he had some food and wanted to sit down during the interview.
Where did we go for the talk? Billy zipped right into Macha’s office, which was empty for the time being, plopped down and started eating.
Looked at me, said, “Go ahead, ask.” Usually, everybody stays out of the manager’s office, by the way, unless the manager is there and is fine with it. Not the A’s way, though.
I started asking, but a few minutes later Macha and Curt Young came back, with plates of food and just in their underwear, obviously looking to eat, change clothes and relax.
They stared at us, I stared at them, Billy just kept eating and talking.
Macha tenatively sat down behind his desk for a few seconds. Very uncomfortable. Shot another glance at Beane. Glared at me. I shrugged, said to Beane, “Umm, maybe we should do this somewhere else.”
Beane looked up like this was the first he’d noticed Macha was there–or cared that he was there–dropped his plate, then just waved at Macha, pointing him out the door. Remember, this was Macha’s own office. After winning for something like the 33rd time in 40 games.
“Ken, you can let us do this, right?” Beane said as he waved.
Beane turned back to me and never looked at Macha again as Macha and Young sighed, got up, and moved out.
That was the relationship. Right there. Beane is the man. Macha always knew it, even when he was in his own office.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:03 am:

Ouch.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By raiderjohn on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:54 am:

What an asshole, I wouldn't hold it against Wash if he left for Texas....boy wonder if Al is like that towards the Raiders Head Man.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By bleacherdave on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 12:04 pm:

It's hard to root for a guy like that. It's been my theory since '02 that chOakland's performance is a reflection of BB's persona.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 01:39 pm:

Well, Macha knew how Billy was for long enough when he was bench coach...and later as a manager...
and he certainly knew how he was when he begged to be re-hired after he noticed he didn't get an offer elsewhere.

Remember that Macha is the first manager hired by Beane. And anybody who is willing to work for Beane has to know all about his irreverence and bluntness.

More and more I have respect for Art Howe who took everything with class and certainly didn't pass on his problems he had with his inherited boss on to his players.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By rayfossefan on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 02:29 pm:

i have to agree. art howe was and is all class. he also did very well with the young players, something i think macha doesn't do well with. howe had that reputation from his days in houston. and although he was soft spoken, he would not step down from arguing with an ump or protecting his players. still, i am sure we'll never see howe in an oakland uniform again.

the sad truth is that no matter who we get for manager, there will always be a segment of fans calling for their head.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By connythemack on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 05:44 pm:

wow. if that's true, beane sounds like a real dick. no wonder why he's hanging out with nwo trash up the bohemian grove--they all seem to share a callous disregard for humanity built on the false foundation of their hubris and well placed connections.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By renobill on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 07:03 pm:

Methinks Kawakami just sealed the revocation of his clubhouse pass.

Not to defend Beane, who, by most accounts, seems to be tactless on occasion, but this little slice of interaction witnessed by the reporter doesn't have the benefit of knowing what went on prior to or after the incident.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By okplayer on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 08:48 pm:

true reno, but it reflects the sentiment that a lot of us have. now i don't want wash to have the job...for his own sake.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By renobill on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 10:44 pm:

I want Wash to have the job for ours and the players sakes. :)

Selfish of me, I know.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 03:31 am:

I think respect you earn, the old fashion way.

We all heard how Macha showed no respect for the players and showed no pride when umps and opposing players put down our players right?

Somehow, I have the feeling Beane may not have acted the same way if Washington was in Beame's position. Or if he did, it would perhaps be the first and last time.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 12:32 pm:

Maybe BB NEEDS a manager he doesn't respect.

Re-reading that episode described by Kawakami, it's amazing to me that Macha put up with being humiliated like that.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By renobill on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 12:39 pm:

Too much conjecture for me to place much credence in the whole locker room deal.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By kevink on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 01:08 pm:

wow. if that's true, beane sounds like a real dick. no wonder why he's hanging out with nwo trash up the bohemian grove--they all seem to share a callous disregard for humanity built on the false foundation of their hubris and well placed connections.

connythemack,
I too read this story but it turned out to be incorrect. Beane was going to the Pebble Beach golf tourney the same weekend that Blair, etc. were going to Bohemian Grove. Somehow, Alex Jones or someone got this twisted and had Bean at Bohemian Grove.

I agree with your assessment of nwo trash by the way. :)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By ssblip on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 01:56 pm:

what is "nwo?"

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 08:30 pm:

New world order.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By ronc on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 08:46 pm:

Dr. Dre, Ice Cube and Easy E ;-)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 10:07 pm:

Bud Black for manager? Might help us beat the Angels.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/20/SPG99LT1M51.DTL

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By jimbo on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 10:09 pm:

... MC Ren, DJ Yella ...

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By okplayer on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 11:20 pm:

arabian prince baby

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By washfan38 on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 11:54 pm:

Illumnati! MoFo's

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By leftfield139 on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 02:44 am:

World Bank baby.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By bleacherdave on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 06:07 am:

Egyptian Lover...

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By jesse on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 09:06 am:

I wonder what would have happened if Macha would have said NO, I cant let you do this. I'm in my underwear and this is MY office, can you do it somewhere else?

I heard an interesting thought from Mychael Urban on KNBR the other day. He said that Beane is the "classic bully" he'll back down if you push back. He also said that in his talking with Washington over the years, Ron has expressed to him that "he can handle Billy" and he feels confident that he would do well as the Oakland MGR. That may be why Beane will not hire him

If that story above is true, he is a total DICK.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By leftfield139 on Saturday, October 21, 2006 - 11:34 am:

I don'b believe the story. I not saying BB is not a dick he may be. I just buy him being that much of a dick in front of a reporter. He is to smart to let that kind of hubris fly in front of a hack writer.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 08:09 am:

Macha continues his sour grapes whining... this below from the ESPN site:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2634647

"The reason I was fired," he told the San Francisco Chronicle, "[was] there was too much interference."

...

"Billy wanted Kielty in the postseason, and I play Kotsay, and then Kotsay comes out and says bad things about me while I basically got fired because I played him," Macha told the Chronicle. "It's kind of sad."
....

"I'm on the field every day," Macha told the paper. "I'm on the airplane with them, in my office with the door open. If anyone wants to talk to me about something, I'll give them an answer. Maybe people didn't want to hear the answers I was going to give them, and maybe that's why they didn't want to come in. But I was available."

....

The Chronicle contacted Kotsay on Saturday, but he refused to comment. Beane said Macha's recollection of events was a "total fabrication."
....


"The A's have moved on," Beane told the Chronicle. "Unfortunately, Ken's memories of some things and the A's memories of some things are a little different, and the most important thing is that we've gone our way and he's gone his way."

....

In my opinion, Beane may be a tough boss and rude but Macha apparently was no better in treating his players so in my view it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By drumme510 on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 10:04 am:

Please hire Ron Washington, Beane, not Bud Black.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By okplayer on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 10:10 am:

yeah but all the players trashing macha was rather unprofessional and beane shouldn't have re-hired him. no one disagrees that macha shoulda been canned. i don't like the way beane deals with (and selects managers). poor on-field decisions always hurt this team and poor management is to blame. simple solution for beane is to hire a good manager but i don't think he's capable of doing that b/c he needs to hire yes man.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By diamond_lil on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 11:57 am:

i sorta agree, although macha is beane's first field manager hire as a gm...and of course he hired him twice which was inexcusable.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By okplayer on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 12:22 pm:

yeah, it was just one big mess lil. here's to a better choice in 07'. at least beane made the the right decision.

sacto's been suspiciously quiet on this issue...:)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By bfriend on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 01:50 pm:

I'm working in Boston this week and today's Globe had a big article with pictures of both Beane and Macha. I was surprised to find that much interest here on the East Coast:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2006/10/22/shortchanged_by_moneyball/

In case you don't want to Register to the Boston Globe, here is the article:

Shortchanged by 'Moneyball'
By Nick Cafardo | October 22, 2006

DETROIT -- You could see clearly that Ken Macha and Billy Beane were not going to coexist indefinitely, whether the Oakland A's were World Series champions or not. There was a clash of philosophies -- the traditional manager vs. the general manager and his pioneering "Moneyball" theory.

Why the marriage of two relative opposites was ever consummated was a surprise, and why it was reaffirmed with a contract extension last winter was equally baffling.

Yet, it worked.

It worked as well as it's ever worked in the Beane era because of, in great part, Macha's willingness to buy into it and his in-game managing.

Speaking for the first time since he was fired after the A's were swept by the Tigers in the American League Championship Series, Macha elected to take the high road on many issues, yet strongly defended the bottom line, that under his management, the A's were one of the league's top teams despite limited resources and a limited roster.

Macha, in fact, not only survived but thrived in what Beane called a "disconnect."

Disconnect? Macha is blunt and my experience with him is that he tells his players what's expected of them, and he doesn't coddle them. He took three players with troubled pasts -- Jay Payton (who clashed with Terry Francona), Frank Thomas (considered a bad clubhouse influence with the White Sox at the end), and Milton Bradley (incidents everywhere he's played) -- and guided them to productive seasons. He got them playing together. The team thrived.

The volatile Bradley had been suspended a few times during his pro career, but Macha's approach was to allow the outfielder to vent and curtailed the number of blowups. No suspensions. In September, Bradley walked into Macha's office and thanked him for stepping in the way of an umpire with whom he was arguing, likely preventing an ugly scene. Payton said he had talks with Macha about playing the game right.

Sources around Major League Baseball during the ALCS said Macha wanted Dan Haren to pitch Games 3 and 7, but was overruled and comebacking Rich Harden (who missed more than three months with a sprained elbow ligament) was given the ball for Game 3 and Haren pushed back to Game 4. Macha also refused to sit Mark Kotsay in favor of Bobby Kielty.

"I don't know how he put up with it for that long," said one source. "Everybody has to answer to their general manager and you want feedback and suggestions from the organization. The best organizations are the ones who do things together and are on the same page. But in the end, it's the manager's decision who to play, when to play them."

And so Macha learned of his fate Oct. 16, two days after the A's were swept from the playoffs. Macha said his goodbyes, walked into the front office, and said, "Thanks for the opportunity. I've had four great years. Not many people get to manage in the playoffs. It was quite a thrill and an honor."

Macha, feeling far less worn out, said, "I know why I got fired. Everybody gets fired. People have a shelf life as a manager. That's their decision. I'm OK with it. I just want to be judged on the four years I served as manager.

"How do you judge a manager? Was the team prepared to play? Did we win? Listen, 25 guys aren't going to love you, but did they play hard every day and go out and produce to the best of their ability? Really, that's the way you should be judged."

You could understand Grady Little's dismissal after winning 95 games and being eliminated by the Yankees in the infamous Pedro Martínez decision in 2003. But when you have a $62 million payroll, win the AL West, sweep the favored Twins to make to the ALCS, and then get fired? It has been the most shocking move of the offseason thus far.

Stories trickled out in the San Francisco Chronicle that Macha was uncommunicative with some of his players, including a backup catcher. Charges were he didn't have much patience with injured players, often excluding them, and that his job might be in trouble.

After Macha was fired, and surely before, some A's players did the old Pete Carroll sidestep, up the back stairs to management.

Macha, who went 93-69 and had a four-year record of 368-280 with two first-place and two second-place finishes, will not speak ill of Beane, or speak about him at all. Macha wanted to walk away with the dignity and class he always portrayed. The whole league knows that he did a very good managing job.

He's been asked, even by his son, "Did you learn any lessons from this?" Macha, who turned 56 last month, has answered that he did things the right way, a way that produced success.

Macha was noticed as a managerial prospect during his four years in the Red Sox organization, managing in Trenton and Pawtucket. He always knew what he was getting into as manager in Oakland. As a bench coach for four years on Art Howe's staff, he'd watched what happened to his predecessor, who was criticized strongly in "Moneyball."

Last winter, Macha was out of work when his contract was not renewed. He even received a letter from A's management thanking him for his work and wishing him the best of luck. Then Beane had a change of heart and signed Macha to a three-year extension.

Macha seemed relieved when he spoke yesterday, though certainly feeling assailed by the charges leveled against him. He didn't communicate with a backup catcher? How awful.

He said he is going to spend time watching his daughter play her senior softball season at Penn State-Behrend. Macha, who has two years remaining on his deal and is owed more than $2 million, was going to catch up with old friends and wait for the next journey.

Although he hasn't heard from any team looking for a manager (Texas, San Francisco, and Washington), he may sit out next year and see where baseball takes him.

"I've spent a lot of time on the West Coast away from my family," Macha said. "Maybe there's more to life than that. Baseball is in my blood and has been in my blood for a long time. As far as next year, if I don't do anything, that's OK. When you do this job you have to decide who you please when you do this job. Who do you please?"

Nick Cafardo can be reached at cafardo@globe.com

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By bfriend on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 01:54 pm:

Oh, and I also noticed on one of those news tickers along the bottom of Sportcenter that Francona has replaced Macha on the Japan All-Star MLB tour. Macha was probably really looking forward to that trip since he is a big hero over there. Kinda feel bad for him...

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By okplayer on Sunday, October 22, 2006 - 04:31 pm:

yep, beane's a cock. as sacto would say Heil Beane!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By rayfossefan on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 10:41 am:

man the more of this I read the more I realize that Macha was a decent manager and guy and no he didn't cuddle with his players but beane just sounds like an asshole. maybe francona will offer his old buddy beane a spot on the bench since he knows how much that trip would mean to him.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By kevink on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 10:52 am:

Why the F*&@ doesn't Beane suit up and get in the dugout? Why does he hire puppets and then get into battles with them when they don't want to be a puppet?

Beane=Al Davis when he still had his marbles.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 11:12 am:

Steward is clearly sympathetic to Macha:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/sports/baseball/mlb/oakland_athletics/15821686.htm

Hurd says not to shed any tears:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/sports/columnists/rick_hurd/15821668.htm

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message   By eyleenn on Monday, October 23, 2006 - 11:15 am:

The Times is running a daily bit called "The Great Skipper Race" between the gnats and A's, proposing managers for each team. Pretty funny stuff.

GIANTS

Joe Morgan. We don't know if he's interested. We haven't heard his name come up. But if it gets him off ESPN telecasts, we're in favor of it.

A'S

Joe Girardi. We're trying to think like Billy Beane. He fired a guy who finished in first by four games. Maybe he'd like one who was fourth, 19 back?

GIANTS

Barry Bonds

• Hey, he's been making out the lineup card for the last two seasons. And he won't have to check his Web site to see if he's healthy.

A'S

Bob Geren

• Bench coach, baseball guy, best man at Billy Beane's wedding. Plus, he still wears his keepsake T-shirt that reads: "Whatever Billy wants."


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