OAFC BBS - All Topics: Archive: True colors
| By armond on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 07:35 pm:|
The bay area has shown its true colors in regard to this move.remeber when the midgets were off to tampa bay 14 years ago and how the whole damn bay rallied around frisco? where was that kind of love for oakland? all u heard was "i just want them to stay in the bay" shit. the problem u see is that oaklands legacy here has only been of crime, drugs bad politics etc. things u hear in alot of big cities across the country. oakland was a major player in the civil rights movement, the black panther party, a major port city for the u.s.. a city WITH a personality unlike many cities out here. u see we live in a time now where sports has become big business to the point where franchises go after a certain demographic. oakland doesnt fit with the times now because there is no representation of the city within the organization. oakland has flair a badass blue collar reputation but look at the team. would u really say there are any "oakland" characters like the 70's and 88-90's teams hell no. this team from the owner to the style of play screams out bland ass south bay. its a shame that the media hasnt exposed these liars for who they are which is also a problem. its a shame the bay wont do for oakland what oakland has done for the bay.
| By diamond_lil on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 08:15 pm:|
The mediots of the Bay Area don't give a damn for what happens to the Oakland A's. They get fed a bunch of crap from ownership and just play their hands without any research or interest to be the ears and eyes of their readers (what a real reporter or news writer should be)
The baseball fans of the Bay Area are so divided and so misinformed they just go with the flow of what is fed to them accepting and trying to have a good time with their pastime.
The rest of us hard core or die hard (whatever) are a bunch of paranoid, rebel rousers and conspiring idiots...
we're just here to spoil their fun and that is why they keep dropping by here to tell us how they can't understand why moving to a spot 20 miles away makes such a big difference. That is all they know and that is all they want to know.
When the day comes and they wake up to read things didn't really work out in Fremont....oh my...then they will blame us for not supporting the owners and because of that the Bay Area lost the A's.
| By eyleenn on Tuesday, November 07, 2006 - 11:24 pm:|
"They get fed a bunch of crap from ownership and just play their hands without any research or interest to be the ears and eyes of their readers..."
Sounds like a description of Blez at AN.
| By justpaul on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 10:11 am:|
"They get fed a bunch of crap from ownership and just play their hands without any research or interest to be the ears and eyes of their readers..."
Sounds like a description of Blez at AN."
Wow, thats harsh eyleen, especially with all the conspiracy theories that abound here...contrast that with Blez, who does thoughtful research, and gosh, even enjoys a good dialouge without personal attacks
| By diamond_lil on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 10:35 am:|
You are absolutely right justpaul.
Why don't you just go read and post there and leave us confrontational and conspiring idiotic people alone...
you seem to be on a mission here...
have you been designated the new internet cop and pr man by the A's wonderful owner in exchange for your charter seats at the freeway ballpark for the cisco kids?
please try trolling elsewhere...
| By wftw on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 11:45 am:|
Forgive me, I'm a little new here, but It sounds like everyone is upset about a move to Fremont. I'm just curious..what is the alternative? Where in Oakland could a park be built and who is going to pay for it?
| By diamond_lil on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 12:08 pm:|
wftw, I think you're a little new not only here but to the entire issue of Oakland's relocation issues.
And forgive me, if you didn't bother to follow this website since it got started in mid nineties, when we've been reporting all the efforts that have been made by City Officials, Corporate and Civic Leaders to build a ballpark in Oakland, it is a bit late for you to come in here asking "what is the alternative"?
My answer to your question is...none. There is no alternative because Wolff is the owner of the A's and he does not want to keep his team in Oakland.
Many of us here do reserve the right to be very upset because we feel Wolff, like the previous ownership (Schotmann) has lied and connived about his intentions.
I hope you got a better understanding of why we're upset and that I have satisfied some of your curiosity.
| By raiderjohn on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 12:08 pm:|
The stadium being built is to appease an old man who doesn't want to be left out of the new park loop in MLB. About 18 months ago when the Oakland Village idea was proposed, he said they required BART and needed as much tranportation access to it.....well this new plan has nothing, traffic is already wall to wall in the area....those restricted to PT will probably avoid the whole situation as it will take time to get to the park...Oakland gave him several options, all were turned down by Wolff, I mean what's wrong with putting up a park in the parking lot, you have BART, existing infrastructure, etc. Wolff's a greedy bastard who wants to get as much $$$ out of it. Oakland wouldn't bend over backwards for that crap. That Oakland village thing he proposed would require the City/Wolff to purchase land from hundred's of property owners...you get one guy not willing to sell....the whole thing blows up in your face. Wolff is just jerking the city around. Oakland gave him a couple of options. Look he's willing to fork over 300 million to put up the entire project stadium and mini city surrounding the park....the land is given to him by Cisco for naming rights. Rumor has it this project will be privately funded, all the City has to do is Survey it and make certain it is all up to code...easy task. He wants control of the entire thing, in Oakland he would only control the stadium, not much else outside of the stadium. Look at the Kings, the Maloofs wanted control of what proprietors can surround the proposed arena. It's ridiculous, owners want free handouts, if not they'll wrap up business and go somewhere else like big babies, with it they take 40 years of tradition away from hundreds of thousands of fans. Several propective owners were shot down because their strategy was to keep the A's in Oakland...Selig shot them down...then Selig finds old frat buddy Wolff and man this is turning into a stinker, one red flag from City of Fremont....bye bye. The problem with Fremont is the City money, it came to light in the summer that they are operating at losses...thus the cancellation of police responding to burglar alarms...now you add the stadium, who's going to pay for the extra police....not Wolff, it's the City's problem. We'll know more come next week when they hold the presser...then again the weasel that is Wolff, it may all be a farce, maybe he already knows Fremont ain't going to make it.
| By wftw on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 01:05 pm:|
Well I was just trying to be polite because I respect what you guys have been doing here and I'd love for the team to stay in Oakland, but that response was a little rude Lil, so now you're gonna hear some things you don't want to hear, and who knows, maybe you'll end up censoring this post:
The Haas family was your ideal owner: Fans of the team, spent a ton of money to keep the players, keeps the team in Oakland, etc. And they found that they simply could not sustain the team any longer. They LOST money...TONS of it. It was a horrible business venture and if they kept at it, their Levi fortune would have shrivled up like a raisin.
That being said, do you really think anyone is going to come in and make the same mistake the Haas family did? Hell no. There is no one in their right mind who would have bought the A's and payed for a new park out of their own pocket in Oakland, but everyone on this site seems to think that that was entirely possible.
Yes the new owner was looking to make money off the deal. So what? Call him greedy, but at the same time, the new owner is looking to WIN BASEBALL GAMES. Trust me he is...the guy could have made more money developing land in Fresno and building more hotels Idaho. But he obviously has an interest in sports and wanted to build a sucessful franchise for the Bay Area and its fans.
He knew it was too risky to just buy a new baseball park so he looked for a huge chunk of land that he could buy and re-sell for a profit in piecmeal to all kinds of retail stores and resturants creating this "ballpark village". He could then turn around and use the profit from that venture to build a new ballpark in the middle of it. I really think he tried to do it in the Oakland fleamarket area as that was the only place in Oakland with the amount of land necessary to complete this project. But he wasn't getting enough cooperation from the wherehouse owners, politicians, etc. HE TRIED. He was not lying to us. I truly believe that.
I'm sorry but there is a lot of anger on this site and its sounds to me like alot of people are more "Oakland" fans than "A's" fans. I love Oakland....I want the team to stay here, but whats more important to me is to have a respectable organization and fan base that can win year in and year out and draw fans to the stadium! Something needs to change in order to achieve that and if it means moving the team to Fremont, so be it!
| By diamond_lil on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 01:19 pm:|
You lost me with...
They LOST money...TONS of it. It was a horrible business venture and if they kept at it, their Levi fortune would have shrivled up like a raisin.
but I would like to sell you the Richmond Bridge real cheap.
| By diamond_lil on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 01:22 pm:|
and for your information...in my first response to you, if you thought I was rude was because I responded to your very polite condescending post...
your second post was hilarious!!!!
| By wftw on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 01:38 pm:|
I don't see how it was condescending. I was trying to find out what the solution is if its not Fremont. I REALLY want to hear a well thought out response. I guess I'm just sick of all the people who criticize the move, but then don't really offer a viable solution to the problem.
What I was saying is that the Haas family who were praised as the best and most ideal owners of the A's, ended up selling the team after what, 10 maybe 15 years? What does that tell you? It tells me they were losing money. And in business when you lose money, you don't stick around.
| By jerryo1 on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 03:02 pm:|
Lil's response may appear somewhat terse because your question was like the guy who shows up after the job is done and says "what did I miss?". The OAFC has been battling to keep the A's in Oakland for nearly 10 years, so to ask "what is the alternative?" is somewhat insulting to our efforts over the years. Unfortunately, we are/were battling not only the A's ownership and Major League baseball (both of whom had no intention of keeping the team in Oakland), but also the city of Oakland; who had other priorities besides baseball and very little interest. It was a considerable uphill fight, but we did it to preserve the legacy of the A's, and keep them where they belong--IN OAKLAND.
Also, your statement regarding the Haas family's sale of the team to Schott and Hoffman is completely irrelevant. The sale was made because Walter Haas Sr. was dying, and had nothing to do with making or losing money. It should also should be noted that under the Haas ownership the A's had their greatest season-ticket base and highest attendance figures.
| By diamond_lil on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 03:04 pm:|
I have no idea where you got your information in regards to Mr. Haas' finances...
as far as I know he sold the team because he was dying of cancer and wanted to leave his assets all in order. He knew many members of his family didn't have any interest in owning a baseball team and there were capital gains issues involved etc...
as far as knowing for certain how they lost money with the A's is really interesting since nobody ever takes a look at any owners' books, not even the other owners...that's why they all run in red to help them out as tax shelters since creative accounting is rampant in MLB.
They are masters at taking money from one pocket and sticking it into another, especially those with ancillary businesses such as newspapers, cable tv and hotels.
| By ramjet1 on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 03:40 pm:|
Correct Lil and as they say you make your money in baseball when you sell the team. If I'm not mistaken the Hass family bought the team in 1980 from Charlie O' Finley for around 15 million and sold them in the mid 90's to Schott/Hoffman for 50 million.
| By wftw on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 04:18 pm:|
Ok...I apologize if I have insuted anyone here. But with all due respect, I still have not seen a better alternative. Its like: "Keep the A's in Oakland!!" but...how? "I don't know...but Keep them in Oakland!!!" It sounds like the only way to keep the A's in Oakland in to leave them right where they are , which is just unnacceptable. We are the laughing stock of Major League Baseball at the moment: "Great team for 7 years, but no one even cares." I hear it all the time..
The situation with Wally Haas is totally relevant because he is the type of owner everyone here wishes we had instead of Mr. Wolff. I think if you look at the situation in the 80's you don't really need to see the books. They had one of the highest payrolls and the lowest attendance figures leading up to 1988...and ticket prices were pretty low.
Its spelled out pretty clear. I think Haas just loved the A's and wanted to turn them into the New York Yankees. So he dumped a bunch of money into the team..he paid Jose, Mark and Rickey and won a world series. But I just don't see how he could have made any money. They were still a small market team: low TV revenue, attendace (with the exception of 1990) and ticket prices.
Yes he was dying, but his son was certainly a fan and candidate to take over..If I'm not mistaken I think he helped run the team while he was ailing. If the A's were a huge cash cow don't you think that the Haas family would have been glad to continue running the team. Haas had been operating at a loss for 15 years and the only way to make up for it was to sell the team for a huge profit.
Maybe I'm just totally off my rocker, but doesn't it make sense to anyone else?
| By raiderjohn on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 04:35 pm:|
Why did the A's move Rickey? Money. This was 1985 and he was due for a pay day soon. 1.4 million was his 1985 salary. Who did the A's get in return, Jay Howell and Jose Rijo, combined probably was about 300,000. 1 million was a huge savings back then. I think Haas was already watching his pocket book from the get go, then saw the mediocrity it bought when you go cheap, then splurged a couple years later with the young kids coming up.
| By wftw on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 05:39 pm:|
The bottom line is this: If the A's were such a sucessful organization at the time of the sale to Schott, then why would Schott have changed anything? Why would the Haas family sell to someone "only if they kept the team in Oakland?" If Oakland was such a great place to have a team then why was the Haas family so scared that a buyer would move the team elsewhere?
Maybe its not true. I don't know...maybe the Haas family was making a killing, but there is no denying that it sure didn't LOOK like a profitable investment.
You have to admit its asking alot for someone these days to go out, buy a team for $180 Million, then turn around and build a new stadium for $300 Million in a city that, with all due respect, really hasn't proven itself to be a profitable city when it comes to baseball. Thats a huge gamble. I'm a huge A's fan...and if my net worth was 1.3 billion (John Fisher) would I want to drop almost half of it into my baseball team? Wow...thats a good question...I don't know
| By oakland_j on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 06:48 pm:|
Not profitable? Then why has the A's payroll continually been on the rise? Surely it isn't out of the goodness of the owner's hearts. The market is clearly profitable, which is why they remain within it.
| By mroakland on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 07:53 pm:|
Wolff is a conniving carpetbagger who lied about wanting to keep the team in Oakland.
Wolff, at one point, wanted a NEW BART station for the 66th to High St. site. (This new station would be less than a half mile from the current Coliseun BART station and cost at least 40 million. NOW, he's OK with a five mile cab ride from the nearest BART station in Fremont.) If that's not attempting to throw a monkey wrench in the entire project, then I don't know what is. Also, Wolff co-opted the Dick Spees group of Oakland business and civic leaders. Wolff dismissed the group by telling them "we'll handle it ourselves." I later saw Spees sitting with Wolff behind the A's dugout. Wolff then tells Dellums, "don't break your pick on this one." attempting to cut off any possible attempt by Oakland to retain the A's. Also, Wolff recently told the San Jose Chamber of Commerce that he attempted to buy rights to the South Bay from the Giants. This was done while he was supposedly working to keep the A's in Oakland.
The man is a slime ball disguised as a kindly grandfatherly type. He's a money grubbing jock sniffer who likes to take batting practice, sit behind the dugout, and hang around the clubhouse in order to maintain a harmless benevolent facade.
All of you willing to dump 40 years of tradition in Oakland and make excuses for the conniving carpetbagger, I have no respect for you. You have no integrity, no loyalty, you're intelectually dishonest, etc. etc. You will be cheering for laundry and Lew Wolff's business model. He will lead you by the nose and you'll gladly follow. He'll tell you that he's doing this so that the whatever A's will be able to compete. But, you know darn well that the real problem is broacast revenues. Going to Fremont won't help that situation one bit.
The A's have been a very successful franchise in Oakland. How many division titles and World Championships have the A's won in Oakland? Only the New York Yankees have won more. Do you actually think that they will be able to do better in Fremont? And yes, when they were winning under the Hass ownership the fans came to the ballpark in droves. They drew 2.9, 2.7 & 2.6 million fans in consecutive years. The reason attendance has been stagnant at around 2.2 million the last few years is because of the horrible ownership. Oakland A's fans have endured rumors of a possible relocation just about every year under the Schott and now Wolff regimes. So please, don't come here with your revisionist history and attempt to place blame on the City of Oakland, Oakland fans, and insult the great city of Oakland as not a "viable" location for MLB.
| By eyleenn on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 11:23 pm:|
The best spot for a new stadium, as determined by the HOK survey, was the Uptown site, but Jerry Brown wanted to strike a deal with Forest City (in return for financial backing). Brown rammed the residential project through the City Council. After that, the momentum for a new park in Oakland pretty much came to a halt.
However, it must be remembered that during that discussion of possible sites, NOT ONE REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE A'S EVER ATTENDED ANY PUBLIC MEETING. The City paid for the HOK study. Meanwhile, Schott failed to appear for a scheduled helicopter tour of sites with Brown.
The City of Oakland does not deserve all the blame for losing the team. A's ownership clearly never had any interest in finding a site for a park in Oakland.
| By casper9559 on Wednesday, November 08, 2006 - 11:47 pm:|
I'm sorry if you all hate me for saying this...but I am excited about the move. Its a new ballpark that I will get season tix to with some friends (splitting the cost of 2 seats with 6 people) I will ride on BART with the new FREMONT CISCO FIELD extension. I hate the name SV A's...and hate the name SJ A's even more. I think they'll keep the Oakland name with SJ being the alternative. The bigger budget and classy stadium excites me. Lew Wolff would be an idiot if he didnt keep the colors and STOMPER. No better color looks better on the green grass than GREEN AND GOLD! KEEP THE WHITE SHOES TOO !! The new market will embrace the team...the new radio station, the new filed and bigger budget...
A's fans...its time to turn the page on an amazing story. Its alright...the book has a happy ending, I PREDICT!
| By washfan38 on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 12:13 am:|
Watch out Dave you might get clocked right outa Left Field for that statement.
| By casper9559 on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 01:01 am:|
Ok...Ok...I was drunk typing...
I just dont want to be bitter about all of this. The A's are my passion. I don't want to fight the powers anymore.
| By diamond_lil on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 05:11 am:|
No washfan, you're wrong. Dave won't be clocked out of anywhere...let him enjoy leftfield while he can because it will soon be gone...
I notice by the way these great A's fans that feel the need to come in here to preach to us how to be good fans...with their revisioned histories of the Oakland A's... that they have very little knowledge of what has been going on in Oakland for the last 15 years.
There is nothing more we can do but lick our wounds over something we've been predicting since Schott bought the team with intentions of relocating the team to Santa Clara.
Now, all that is left to do is watch how some these great A's fans want to pick the name and colors to make believe Catfish, Fingers, Eck and Rickey were all part of their new baseball team's legacy. They want it all don't they...the name...the colors and the legacy.
Rickey for one said that if had a choice, he would have just "Oakland" on his baseball cap when inducted into the HOF. I wish he would do just that...
One thing the Fremont Cisco Team will never have ... and that is the love of many Oakland A's fans who watched the Oakland A's legacy being built. That they may try to shame us into having... but will never get.
If Wolff & Fi$sher remove Oakland from the team name, then there's no way in hell they can justify trying to keep the legacy of Catfish, Rollie, Campy, Rickey & Stew, not to mention four world titles. The $ilicon Valley A'$ or whatever the fek they will be called will have to take on a new fan base.
1 Selig said Oakland getting the A's was a mistake
2 The A's had great attendance when they had a committed owner to Oakland
3 MLB & Schott tabled the pro-Oakland Dolich group in '99
4 Schott said the A's have no future in Oakland & later sent NO representatives to Oakland council meeting w/HOK presentation
5 Scott stiffeded Jerry Brown's helicopter ride over Uptown HOK site
6 anti- Oakland Schott morphed into Wolff a frat buddy of Selig
7 It all adds up to goodbye Oakland for MLB & good riddance to the A'$ and MLB for me & many other Oakland fans
" washfan38 on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 12:13 am:
Watch out Dave you might get clocked right outa Left Field for that statement.
Dave, who? Bring it, baby!
Oh, I get it now. casper9559. Dave Casper.
I guess Lil and Lefty aren't really Oakland people. They would have gotten the Casper reference....
| By casper9559 on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 10:15 am:|
bleacher...My name is Dave Casper. They wern't trying to be RAIDER CLEVER.
| By washfan38 on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 03:34 pm:|
Dave Casper in my opinion is true patriot hero in the vein of Pat Tillman without all the NFL fame.
I was conveying to Dave that his new stadium posting exuberance may get him clocked, bombarded or lambasted from right outa left field.
Baseball is about tradition and cetainly the A's should remain in Oakland!
| By eyleenn on Thursday, November 09, 2006 - 10:32 pm:|
Dave Casper is an Iraq war vet. Whatever his opinions on the ballpark, he deserves respect for that.
However, Dave, I hope you're prepared to wait 10 years for that "BART Cisco Field extension."
thanks, dave for your service.
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